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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am trying to understand why I am having so much trouble getting this thing to wheelie.

There are a few things I want to check.
As I feared the altitude here is killing me, but is seems excessive.

First I would like to know where you guys are seeing your boost start to kick in. I see half a bar at 5000. Is that what you guys are seeing?

Now I am wondering if the exhaust (pipe) valve is is holding things up. Maybe it is time to disconnect the cables or adjust it so it never really closes too much.
Or maybe I am getting clutch slippage when I bang the throttle???

I am not talking about it just picking up a few inches, I like about a 18" loft and carry it. Right now it barely does that in first.

This thing wheelies like $hit. It seems to accelerate very hard, much harder than my 10, so I don't think there is something terribly wrong.
 

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I am trying to understand why I am having so much trouble getting this thing to wheelie.

There are a few things I want to check.
As I feared the altitude here is killing me, but is seems excessive.

First I would like to know where you guys are seeing your boost start to kick in. I see half a bar at 5000. Is that what you guys are seeing?

Now I am wondering if the exhaust (pipe) valve is is holding things up. Maybe it is time to disconnect the cables or adjust it so it never really closes too much.
Or maybe I am getting clutch slippage when I bang the throttle???

I am not talking about it just picking up a few inches, I like about a 18" loft and carry it. Right now it barely does that in first.

This thing wheelies like $hit. It seems to accelerate very hard, much harder than my 10, so I don't think there is something terribly wrong.


I’m lost Ted...
I spend most of my rides trying to keep the front wheel on the ground in any gear below 4th.
Under acceleration it’s mental, admittedly it’s flashed and doing decent numbers but even so your bike not wanting to kill you at all times seems a little odd.
The only thing I can think of is you have the newer model with IMU so have anti wheelie built into your electronics package. Can this all be disabled? Is this interfering?
I run my TC on 1 or off. I’m no track day hero so I’m not too interested in my engine sounding like a twin under hard acceleration. To be honest I’m not a massive fan of the new electronic aids (being an old analog man!) and have never messed with engine braking, launch control etc, it’s all BS to me.
Other than that I’m stumped.... Maybe get it on a dyno and see where you are at because it doesn’t sound right to me.



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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I’m lost Ted...
I spend most of my rides trying to keep the front wheel on the ground in any gear below 4th.
Under acceleration it’s mental, admittedly it’s flashed and doing decent numbers but even so your bike not wanting to kill you at all times seems a little odd.
The only thing I can think of is you have the newer model with IMU so have anti wheelie built into your electronics package. Can this all be disabled? Is this interfering?
I run my TC on 1 or off. I’m no track day hero so I’m not too interested in my engine sounding like a twin under hard acceleration. To be honest I’m not a massive fan of the new electronic aids (being an old analog man!) and have never messed with engine braking, launch control etc, it’s all BS to me.
Other than that I’m stumped.... Maybe get it on a dyno and see where you are at because it doesn’t sound right to me.



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I turn off traction control completely. I don't care for it. I like to slide around and steer with the rear wheel. I grew up as a flat tracker.

I too am not a fan of the electronics, although ABS is a good thing. My dyno guys sold their shop and the new guys are clueless and won't let me do my own runs. So for now it is seat of the pants.

BUT I am just bummed that the thing just doesn't wheelie. I read everything I could, waited a few years to let them iron out the bugs. Everyone says the thing is wheelie prone but not mine. But maybe I waited too long and they ironed out the wheelies. But one would think if the traction control is off it would just wheelie. I had it wheelie when I was near sea level in second but it maybe lofted 6 inches. But third, no way. My 10 would wheelie in second big time at sea level.

Maybe a flash?? I sure would like to see WTF is going on.
 

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I turn off traction control completely. I don't care for it. I like to slide around and steer with the rear wheel. I grew up as a flat tracker.

I too am not a fan of the electronics, although ABS is a good thing. My dyno guys sold their shop and the new guys are clueless and won't let me do my own runs. So for now it is seat of the pants.

BUT I am just bummed that the thing just doesn't wheelie. I read everything I could, waited a few years to let them iron out the bugs. Everyone says the thing is wheelie prone but not mine. But maybe I waited too long and they ironed out the wheelies. But one would think if the traction control is off it would just wheelie. I had it wheelie when I was near sea level in second but it maybe lofted 6 inches. But third, no way. My 10 would wheelie in second big time at sea level.

Maybe a flash?? I sure would like to see WTF is going on.


Well a flash would certainly switch off all the factory restrictions, that problem would be eliminated.
You really need it on a reputable dyno to see where you are, post it on here and get some comparisons.
To me the results were absolute night and day and when combined with a full exhaust(Akra) gave me an extra 50bhp DIN (49 SAE)
I didn’t want crazy mods but wanted it to be de restricted and breathe properly even though I absolutely don’t have the talent to use it all!
I guess it would help at your altitude Ted.


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"Maybe get it on a dyno"...good advice there.Okay,so Ted,you have the IMU that measures lean angle then.That shouldn't interfere with straight line performance.You have the KCMF..that affects the cornering performance and KTRC.Possibly it's activating when you're hammering the throttle?When you hit it hard,can you hear any kind of stuttering?Have you replaced the air filter?Maybe try a SP-08 Sprint?

You might want to go ahead and get the newest stage 1 flash and mapping on there.That will kick your HP up.And disable some of the limiters.Ask Brock about it and tell him what's happening.They may have a special mapping for altitude.Or could create one.This is odd.They can disable that valve in the canister.Or you could go with a full system exhaust.I kept my factory headers,removed the sound can just aft of the 02 sensor,and added a stainless midpipe,and akra shorty muffler(no baffle).She'll wheely alright.IDK what rpm she starts to come up in first at,but she leaps right up.This was before the new stage 1 setup.IDK what she's gonna do now,yet.But if she's like the others that have this,it should be around 250hp.I'm at around 1500 ft.I don't think your SC should be having this issue.It's not like yer up in the Andes or somethin.The way mine feels and such,it's hard to imagine it stumbling around at 4K feet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well a flash would certainly switch off all the factory restrictions, that problem would be eliminated.
You really need it on a reputable dyno to see where you are, post it on here and get some comparisons.
To me the results were absolute night and day and when combined with a full exhaust(Akra) gave me an extra 50bhp DIN (49 SAE)
I didn’t want crazy mods but wanted it to be de restricted and breathe properly even though I absolutely don’t have the talent to use it all!
I guess it would help at your altitude Ted.


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What flash did you use?

Yeah, but from what I have seen the exhaust doesn't do that much other than save weight.

Now I am starting to wonder if it is my method. I am chopping the throttle and banging it on. Maybe chopping the throttle is causing the exhaust valve to close and not open quickly enough. Hmmm. Maybe a ride today and test.
 

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I’m lost Ted...
I spend most of my rides trying to keep the front wheel on the ground in any gear below 4th.
Under acceleration it’s mental, admittedly it’s flashed and doing decent numbers but even so your bike not wanting to kill you at all times seems a little odd.
The only thing I can think of is you have the newer model with IMU so have anti wheelie built into your electronics package. Can this all be disabled? Is this interfering?
I run my TC on 1 or off. I’m no track day hero so I’m not too interested in my engine sounding like a twin under hard acceleration. To be honest I’m not a massive fan of the new electronic aids (being an old analog man!) and have never messed with engine braking, launch control etc, it’s all BS to me.
Other than that I’m stumped.... Maybe get it on a dyno and see where you are at because it doesn’t sound right to me.




It has to be electronics , has anyone on this site ridden their 2015-2017 at the same altitude for comparison ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
"Maybe get it on a dyno"...good advice there.Okay,so Ted,you have the IMU that measures lean angle then.That shouldn't interfere with straight line performance.You have the KCMF..that affects the cornering performance and KTRC.Possibly it's activating when you're hammering the throttle?When you hit it hard,can you hear any kind of stuttering?Have you replaced the air filter?Maybe try a SP-08 Sprint?

You might want to go ahead and get the newest stage 1 flash and mapping on there.That will kick your HP up.And disable some of the limiters.Ask Brock about it and tell him what's happening.They may have a special mapping for altitude.Or could create one.This is odd.They can disable that valve in the canister.Or you could go with a full system exhaust.I kept my factory headers,removed the sound can just aft of the 02 sensor,and added a stainless midpipe,and akra shorty muffler(no baffle).She'll wheely alright.IDK what rpm she starts to come up in first at,but she leaps right up.This was before the new stage 1 setup.IDK what she's gonna do now,yet.But if she's like the others that have this,it should be around 250hp.I'm at around 1500 ft.I don't think your SC should be having this issue.It's not like yer up in the Andes or somethin.The way mine feels and such,it's hard to imagine it stumbling around at 4K feet.
You mentioned in some other thread that you could see the lean angle, so do you have a 2017? The 2018 is supposed to be the same.
 

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No Ted,I have a 2015.'Chopping the throttle then banging it on"...I don't get mine to lift that way.I start in 1st,then briskly open her up.Within a second or so the front jumps up.No idea what the rpms are,but it isn't really high.WAY plenty left to go.Maybe your technique is triggering the KTRC.If she's detecting any slip,it'll kick in.Possibly even moreso with your KCMF on.I'm in a low speed roll when I twist mine.
Can't you turn that off?Like the KRTC?
 

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I have the 2016 Ted and it will wheelie with ease. Nothing drastic I can just roll the throttle and she will power wheelie.

I was at the track afew weeks ago and one of the coaches/racers who is a good friend of mine took her out for a session and came in and said holy **** thats all fcking motor had no problem lifting the front tire. Down the straight he was 40mph faster than Tony on his new CBR1000RR who runs Tony Track Days.

I actually have to pay attention when I race anyone as the bike will come up faster than anything else I've ridden. I've been riding a S1000RR for the last 3 years and this bike will wheelie as easy or maybe easier than the BMW even with the extra weight.

I'm no wheelie pro but whatever is going on with your bike it must be either your technique, electronics or a combo of both with the new software?

Personally get the bike dyno/flashed and see what happens. Maybe an auto tune module might be something that could help with your elevation?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No Ted,I have a 2015.'Chopping the throttle then banging it on"...I don't get mine to lift that way.I start in 1st,then briskly open her up.Within a second or so the front jumps up.No idea what the rpms are,but it isn't really high.WAY plenty left to go.Maybe your technique is triggering the KTRC.If she's detecting any slip,it'll kick in.Possibly even moreso with your KCMF on.I'm in a low speed roll when I twist mine.
Can't you turn that off?Like the KRTC?
In first it will come up, chopping the throttle, a bit violent but that is to be expected. It is second that is the problem, it comes up maybe a couple of inches and goes back down. Nothing like what everyone tells me. Maybe at altitude this is it. I have got it to come up once or twice (before re-gearing) so there must be a sweet spot, but is is hard to find. But to be honest the 10 which is geared much taller comes up easier than this thing. The 10 in first is almost as tall as second on the H2 and it lofts. Granted the 10 does not loft in second at this altitude, but that again is a much taller gear. I'm starting to think the low compression and altitude combo is the real culprit. Crap. And gearing it up probably isn't helping matters. Crap again.
 

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What flash did you use?

Yeah, but from what I have seen the exhaust doesn't do that much other than save weight.

Now I am starting to wonder if it is my method. I am chopping the throttle and banging it on. Maybe chopping the throttle is causing the exhaust valve to close and not open quickly enough. Hmmm. Maybe a ride today and test.


Ted,
I went with Brock after advice from Bob C on here & an online chat with Brock. The import duty hammered me in the UK but the service and support was excellent.
Even after fitting my full system he was happy to mail me a ballpark map that turned out to be 95% perfect for the UK. I only went back on the dyno to satisfy my curiosity, it was all good other than some slight trimming.
I recommend Brock highly.



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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
As to my original question. Just gently accelerating where do you guys see boost starting to show?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have the 2016 Ted and it will wheelie with ease. Nothing drastic I can just roll the throttle and she will power wheelie.

I was at the track afew weeks ago and one of the coaches/racers who is a good friend of mine took her out for a session and came in and said holy **** thats all fcking motor had no problem lifting the front tire. Down the straight he was 40mph faster than Tony on his new CBR1000RR who runs Tony Track Days.

I actually have to pay attention when I race anyone as the bike will come up faster than anything else I've ridden. I've been riding a S1000RR for the last 3 years and this bike will wheelie as easy or maybe easier than the BMW even with the extra weight.

I'm no wheelie pro but whatever is going on with your bike it must be either your technique, electronics or a combo of both with the new software?

Personally get the bike dyno/flashed and see what happens. Maybe an auto tune module might be something that could help with your elevation?
Creepy,
I believe everything you say and at or near sea level, mine is probably pretty hairy, haven't really had a good place to experiment.

Altitude compensation is nothing more than reducing fuel and or bumping up the timing. Air is air, and a lack thereof if the problem. A supercharger pumps in air to compensate. The problem is this supercharger was not designed to compensate for altitude like aircraft. It was designed to work at sea level, so altitude takes the same kind if hit a NA engine does. Maybe at very high RPMs it makes up for the lack of air because the pressures in the airbox is lower allowing the SC to pump a little easier.

But where I ride is not at peak RPMs. But alas, this is the age old problem with altitude, compounded by being able to talk to a forum of people who live at sea lever, describing their performance. Had I not spoken to you guys, my expectations would not be as high.
 

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There's a few solutions on here...all isn't lost Ted.Just curious here...what about that other H2 site?Anyone over there having this issue?

"And gearing it up probably isn't helping matters". I was wondering why you even did that.
 

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I don't look at the boost gauge either Ted but it will pick up the front in 1st as soon as the clutch is home, from just a few thousand rpm if you give it too much throttle. It also picks it up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th using the throttle. Sometimes in 5th too and I'm talking about 160-170mph. No need to play with the clutch or shift weight.
 

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‘Struggling to keep the front down on a standard Kawasaki H2 “
This is a youtube title that i posted up of my H2 , it shows how a standard H2 behaves if you provoke it with too much throttle but im still backing it off to prevent it going over .
Its up in forth , im not using the quickshifter as i was not use to them and have to stop myself from using the clutch , Something I still struggle with .
 
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