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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I just got back from a track weekend on my ZX10R fitted with a Brembo RCS19 front master and HH Pads and then went for a ride on my H2 and was like these brakes sucked compared to the 10R.... Well before anyone gets pissed at me saying they are good. It's just my preference to have a firm brake lever pull... Well I just ordered the RCS19 for the front master cylinder and figured **** with it let's try and upgrade the clutch pull to a lighter one while using the stock 2015 clutch set up. My thinking is with switching to the RCS16 clutch master the pull will get lighter while still having the good heavy spring from 2015 set up. What do you think ?:D
 

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@Somefun

Agreed on this. I get off my other Superbike, which also has 330mm Brembos with M50's and its not remotely the same. I have to ride the H2 for like 20 min to get used to it again and then it seems normal. It just does NOT stop the same as the other bike. I wish I knew the exact technical difference between the two systems. I would totally change parts to make them both stop the same.

NOLA
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@Somefun

Agreed on this. I get off my other Superbike, which also has 330mm Brembos with M50's and its not remotely the same. I have to ride the H2 for like 20 min to get used to it again and then it seems normal. It just does NOT stop the same as the other bike. I wish I knew the exact technical difference between the two systems. I would totally change parts to make them both stop the same.

NOLA
Nola I think this will do the trick for sure. I'll let you guys know. I know with the ABS it does make the lever a little spongy but I was able to take most of that out on my sons ZX636 by adding the RCS19. But I really interested in what the clutch will be like after the RCS16 install....
 

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Agreed, but the other bike has ABS too. The only drawback to the RCS19 is that it doesnt have a provision for the brake switch, and because its 19mm bore versus our 16mm bore, it technically has more overall power, but a longer stroke to achieve it.

NOLA
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Agreed, but the other bike has ABS too. The only drawback to the RCS19 is that it doesnt have a provision for the brake switch, and because its 19mm bore versus our 16mm bore, it technically has more overall power, but a longer stroke to achieve it.

NOLA
Actually the RCS19 I ordered comes with the micro switch and the provision for one. And with the 19 the stroke will be far less than what I have now with the RCS16 on there. I’m hoping to get to install them next weekend and give them a try.
 
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yeah you've all seen the brake upgrade I did, the RCS19 MC being part of it, and my brakes are REALLY firm, barely any pull from one finger and it's shutting down. I'm going to state to obvious here.. but you can adjust that RCS19 lever in/out till you get the right feel for you, and the other thing is the brake pads you use can make a huge difference in how the lever feels on the initial pull as well. I use SBS race pads, they were about $360 for a set but really worth it. This next week my builder is going to be doing a LOT of work on my bike and at that time I'm going to have him bypass the ABS which is the final part of the brake upgrade that I've been wanting to get done.
 

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I,ve been investigating the M50 calipers / master cylinder / pads generally (mostly because the older M4-34 appears to be WAY better!), and this is what I have learned:

The RCS17 master cylinder is Brembos recommendation for the M50 caliper; the RCS19 is for the larger 34mm pistons in the M4-34.
M50 has 30mm pistons (this caliper is also known as M430).
The H2 has HG rated brake pads ,these are not to my taste-too much lever effort needed, and some high quality HH pads (own choice!) will make a BIG difference.

I have left my H2 brakes stock, and they are well outperformed (if not in outright stopping ability but certainly in feel) by the older calipers / RCS19 / Brembo HH pads combination (even on a ZX14R)
 

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racer172 I will be interested in how the ABS bypass goes!

I recall (think it was you) posting that the H2's ABS doesn't adversely affect performance on the track - doesn't kick in too much on heavy braking corners - is your ABS bypass more related to you getting that quest for a bit more performance edge or other reasons

Don.
 

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racer172 I will be interested in how the ABS bypass goes!
I recall (think it was you) posting that the H2's ABS doesn't adversely affect performance on the track - doesn't kick in too much on heavy braking corners - is your ABS bypass more related to you getting that quest for a bit more performance edge or other reasons Don.
Yes Don you are correct, I did state in an earlier thread that H2 owners shouldn't worry about the ABS interfering with their braking, something that you probably would see come up unless you were riding the H2 to it's limits as a real racer does on the track, something that I'm pretty sure no one on this forum does.

Last time I had my H2 out at the track I was really dialed in and moving at race pace, I was hitting 170mph gps reading on the front straight and braking harder & smoother than I've ever done before to the point of hitting the limits of the system. At the point of maximum pull of the brake lever I was getting a vibration in the front end coming up through the handle bars. My Brembo full-floating rotors are not bent so I'm 99% sure that was the ABS kicking in. Only other possibility is the steering head bearings or steering head spanner nut is a bit loose which I will check out next week when the bike goes into the shop but I'm pretty sure that's not where the vibration is coming from. So We are going to disable/bypass the ABS. The plan will be to move the ABS wiring in the ECU just as is done on the zx10r non-ABS models so the ABS warning light won't be going off. If there are any issues with this method then my guy is going to have FlashTune make a bypass plug to fool the ECU. Then next step is to have custom brake lines made that no longer feed to the ABS pump. I never ride in the wet so this mod will work perfect for me. I'll start a new thread on this when it's done. One note; my guy said that we might have to destroy the ABS pump in this process so there's no going back, I'm not clear as to why. If that is the case then removing it will shed about 8lbs from the bike. I'll keep you posted.
 

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Yes Don you are correct, I did state in an earlier thread that H2 owners shouldn't worry about the ABS interfering with their braking, something that you probably would see come up unless you were riding the H2 to it's limits as a real racer does on the track, something that I'm pretty sure no one on this forum does.

Last time I had my H2 out at the track I was really dialed in and moving at race pace, I was hitting 170mph gps reading on the front straight and braking harder & smoother than I've ever done before to the point of hitting the limits of the system. At the point of maximum pull of the brake lever I was getting a vibration in the front end coming up through the handle bars. My Brembo full-floating rotors are not bent so I'm 99% sure that was the ABS kicking in. Only other possibility is the steering head bearings or steering head spanner nut is a bit loose which I will check out next week when the bike goes into the shop but I'm pretty sure that's not where the vibration is coming from. So We are going to disable/bypass the ABS. The plan will be to move the ABS wiring in the ECU just as is done on the zx10r non-ABS models so the ABS warning light won't be going off. If there are any issues with this method then my guy is going to have FlashTune make a bypass plug to fool the ECU. Then next step is to have custom brake lines made that no longer feed to the ABS pump. I never ride in the wet so this mod will work perfect for me. I'll start a new thread on this when it's done. One note; my guy said that we might have to destroy the ABS pump in this process so there's no going back, I'm not clear as to why. If that is the case then removing it will shed about 8lbs from the bike. I'll keep you posted.
Just a reminder. Sometimes a vibration from the front brake is not caused by a bent rotor.A bent rotor will usually cause the initial pull of the brake lever to be longer, because the rotor kicks the pads apart.
That vibration can be caused by a variation in the rotor thickness. And you may not be able to measure it unless the rotor is hot. A pair of verniers is not sufficient, you have to measure with a micrometer. This is usually caused by improper rotor break in. A gentle heating and cooling of the rotor lets the molecules align and form a even surface tension. Too hard braking in the beginning can cause the rotor to overheat and can cool too quickly where the pads are touching or whatever, causing an uneven surface when hot.
Just a thought.
 

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Just a reminder. Sometimes a vibration from the front brake is not caused by a bent rotor.A bent rotor will usually cause the initial pull of the brake lever to be longer, because the rotor kicks the pads apart.
That vibration can be caused by a variation in the rotor thickness. .
I appreciate the thought. I've had a bent rotor on my zx10 racebike which was giving me excessive vibration under hard braking at any speeds above 90mph, when we measured the rotors for warp one of them was really bad, never figured out how it happened either. But I do know what it feels like.

These full-floating brembos are almost brand new so I doubt they are the problem, but just to entertain your idea I measured the thickness of both, just over 1/10th of a mm difference, or 14/1000 of a mm difference (pics below) so I think they are fine. Actually I was talking about this vibration issue to my builder and he suspects it was from me running too low a tire pressure in the front, causing too much rebound in the front tire. So that's one more area I'll be addressing next time out to the track.



 

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Kind of off topic but on topic, I was looking at upgrading my rotors and pads on the front this winter. With that being said, I don't do track days on the bike, but lots of 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and standing mile. I will be under heavy braking, but without getting any heat into the pads before hand. Any recommendations?
 

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EBC HH pads have excellent initial bite and very strong performance. Always one of the first things I do is swap to ebc hh pads in front. I find the brakes on my 2017 are excellent, not a single complaint here. With these pads, hard stops are a one or two finger affair.
 

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I appreciate the thought. I've had a bent rotor on my zx10 racebike which was giving me excessive vibration under hard braking at any speeds above 90mph, when we measured the rotors for warp one of them was really bad, never figured out how it happened either. But I do know what it feels like.

These full-floating brembos are almost brand new so I doubt they are the problem, but just to entertain your idea I measured the thickness of both, just over 1/10th of a mm difference, or 14/1000 of a mm difference (pics below) so I think they are fine. Actually I was talking about this vibration issue to my builder and he suspects it was from me running too low a tire pressure in the front, causing too much rebound in the front tire. So that's one more area I'll be addressing next time out to the track.



I have to agree that the new Brembos probably not the problem.
Also remember that balance can and will make a bike vibrate on braking, it is kind of an oscillation thing. I always change and balance my own tires and use the race track method.
When measuring disks you must use a micrometer close to the center, the verniers will measure the edges where there is no wear. You can use them if you grind away everything but the very tips. That is the good thing about Harbor Freight verniers, they are cheap enough to allow you to do that. I have a $300 set of Mitsitoyos that would be stupid to do that to. Also HF does have decent and inexpensive micrometers.
 

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And some history on rotors. When the mfgs. were just starting to use disks, they purposely bent the rotor slightly to "kick" the pads back so they wouldn't drag. Then they figured out how to make them so the O rings would allow them to back away. Then floating (and Semi) rotors and O rings took care of it because the disks can move around and do. I like how the full floaters rattle.
 

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Kind of off topic but on topic, I was looking at upgrading my rotors and pads on the front this winter. With that being said, I don't do track days on the bike, but lots of 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and standing mile. I will be under heavy braking, but without getting any heat into the pads before hand. Any recommendations?
boosted I used to run carbone lorraine track pads (not the full on race pads) on my zx10 which was going back-n-forth between the track & canyon, wanted good pads that wouldn't take long to work, and Mike from Rider's Discount hooked me up with these pads. I was really happy with how they always worked when I needed them to, even after I had been riding an easy 60mph for the last 5 min. and now I'm diving into the the canyon twisties.

CL Brakes

BTW are you going to getting your engine rebuilt under warranty?
 

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^Thank you, and I will be rebuilding it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok so I just got my Brembo clutch and front brake master cylinders in and couldn't help my self but install them tonight.... so to do both it was about a little less than two hours. I can say for sure the front brake master cylinder is a huge difference. It feels more like my track ZX10R with the RCS19. Real happy with the swap. So that brings me to the clutch. I didn't realize at the time the bike comes with a Brembo rcs15 and I changed it out for a RCS16. It is definitely better than it was but not the night and day I was hoping for.... I think I should have gone with the RCS17 or and 18.
 

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So that brings me to the clutch. I didn't realize at the time the bike comes with a Brembo rcs15 and I changed it out for a RCS16. It is definitely better than it was but not the night and day I was hoping for.... I think I should have gone with the RCS17 or and 18.
What performance gain were/are you looking for in the clutch change? Curious cause I have no complaints in the stock setup.
 
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