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Discussion Starter #1
It seems like the Internet has mixed feelings about the Kawasaki Ninja H2. Some say that it is an incredible and powerful superbike, while others think that it just isn't living up to the hype. Here are some snippets from a Lansplitter article titled, "The Kawasaki Ninja H2 Is In Grave Danger of Falling Flat On Its Hype."

Granted the H2 is a lot lighter than the 1.4 liter ZX, and it's supposed to have god's gift to gearboxes between its supercharged engine and wheels. But I'm having a hard time imagining anyone spending 25 g's on a bike that's so heavy and complex when you could buy proven racing pedigree and/or European swagger for so much less.
The H2 sounds impressively engineered, and it certainly looks like it's going to be built to an extremely exacting standard. But for $25,000, all that tech is going to have to translate to one **** of a riding experience to make any sense at all.
The article really goes through every aspect of the bike. It is full of mixed opinions that seem to really give a good well-rounded view of the bike.

The Kawasaki Ninja H2 Is In Grave Danger Of Falling Flat On Its Hype
 

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Dude goes wrong immediately and destroys his cred in one sentence

The track-only Kawasaki Ninja H2R stepped on the scene last month with a sinister look and output figure that blew out pants to smithereens: 300 Freakin' Horsepower.
we didn't get that figure until this week.

Besides you cherry picked the two overtly negative points in the entire article which BTW is written in the same superfluous Kinja aloof arrogant smarter than thou without bringing logic or value to the discussion style that makes them popular in social circles where knowledge and logic are vehemently hated.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Dude goes wrong immediately and destroys his cred in one sentence



we didn't get that figure until this week.

Besides you cherry picked the two overtly negative points in the entire article which BTW is written in the same superfluous Kinja aloof arrogant smarter than thou without bringing logic or value to the discussion style that makes them popular in social circles where knowledge and logic are vehemently hated.
Okay, so you disagree I take it? Sorry to offend you. >:D
 

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Nice article, thanks for linking. I agree with basically everything he said.
 

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What he said hasn't already been said here better. When he compares specs straight up with a ZX-14 he makes himself look like a tool.

It only speaks to half the story, and the half that makes the 14's look exceptional. He makes no mention of Corner SPEED anywhere and speaks sparingly about suspension. Now if you want to read a good piece go check out what Kev Cameron wrote in Cycle World.
 
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What he said hasn't already been said here better. When he compares specs straight up with a ZX-14 he makes himself look like a tool.

It only speaks to half the story, and the half that makes the 14's look exceptional. He makes no mention of Corner SPEED anywhere and speaks sparingly about suspension. Now if you want to read a good piece go check out what Kev Cameron wrote in Cycle World.
Which exact article from Kevin Cameron are you referring to? Can you link to it?
 

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ya man... Kawasaki Ninja H2 Streetbike First Look Motorcycle Review- Photos

I like Cameron because he was an engineer and is still currently a builder/tuner of race bikes. Not some click baiter powder puff... Man knows his machinery...

I hate to break it to you, but this quote below from that article makes me question everything about the article, and the "experience" of Cameron:

The cast pistons (as in two-strokes and in gas turbines, materials with highest hot strength cannot be forged, only cast)


FORGED pistons are the standard for forced induction applications. Any race engine with forced induction you open up will have forged pistons. Cast pistons are selected by OEMs because they are cheap and less prone to "piston slap" noise.
 

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I hate to break it to you, but this quote below from that article makes me question everything about the article, and the "experience" of Cameron:

The cast pistons (as in two-strokes and in gas turbines, materials with highest hot strength cannot be forged, only cast)


FORGED pistons are the standard for forced induction applications. Any race engine with forced induction you open up will have forged pistons. Cast pistons are selected by OEMs because they are cheap and less prone to "piston slap" noise.
Full race applications have less concern for longevity. I believe what he is saying is that materials with the highest heat resistance don't take to forging, but materials with the highest heat resistance may not be the most desirable for a race application. Again this could be where longevity comes into play, where a race application will sacrifice life for weight...

Its a relatively jangled sentence as well if you ask me...
 

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Full race applications have less concern for longevity. I believe what he is saying is that materials with the highest heat resistance don't take to forging, but materials with the highest heat resistance may not be the most desirable for a race application. Again this could be where longevity comes into play, where a race application will sacrifice life for weight...

Its a relatively jangled sentence as well if you ask me...
Regardless, I am NOT impressed with Cameron, or the H2 with a $25k MSRP.
 

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Full race applications have less concern for longevity. I believe what he is saying is that materials with the highest heat resistance don't take to forging, but materials with the highest heat resistance may not be the most desirable for a race application. Again this could be where longevity comes into play, where a race application will sacrifice life for weight...

Its a relatively jangled sentence as well if you ask me...

I don't think forged pistons are just for longevity, I think they're just way more up to the task of the intense abuse that comes from forced induction. Every turbo'd engine I've seen (or owned) has forged pistons. They kinda have to. One of the first mods you do when you turbo a motorcycle (and you want to make more than 250/300hp or so) is you put in forged pistons and beefier rods.

If the H2 seriously has cast pistons...that's just more fuel to the "wtf" fire this has become. Once all of these people convinced they're going to just flash the ECU and get H2R performance numbers do so, and they start cranking up the boost (assuming it's even possible), we might start seeing several pictures of grenaded engines and cracked pistons. Hah.

Also, not that this is necessarily related, but the number of people that are by all definitions Kawasaki apologists is really weirding me out. Especially on the zx-10 forums -- pages and pages of people explaining away the ridiculous price and questionable performance specs. The current running theory seems to be that the H2 is actually way more than 200hp, Kawasaki just doesn't want to tell people for X Y and Z reasons. Because that makes lots of sense. Give me a break. Before the torque numbers were released, there were people trying to say the H2 may be kinda low on horsepower, but the torque is where it will shine...then we learn it has like 83 ft-lbs @ 197 hp, whereas the naturally aspirated Panigale 1299 makes like 210 hp @ 110 lb-ft of torque (or close to it). What a joke.
 

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My 1199 panigale with full teremi and ECU flash did 183.4 hp top speed with gps 182. THATS fucking slow my s1000rr full akra did 190hp but 192 top end now that's the difference right there.
 

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I don't think forged pistons are just for longevity, I think they're just way more up to the task of the intense abuse that comes from forced induction. Every turbo'd engine I've seen (or owned) has forged pistons. They kinda have to. One of the first mods you do when you turbo a motorcycle (and you want to make more than 250/300hp or so) is you put in forged pistons and beefier rods.

If the H2 seriously has cast pistons...that's just more fuel to the "wtf" fire this has become. Once all of these people convinced they're going to just flash the ECU and get H2R performance numbers do so, and they start cranking up the boost (assuming it's even possible), we might start seeing several pictures of grenaded engines and cracked pistons. Hah.

Also, not that this is necessarily related, but the number of people that are by all definitions Kawasaki apologists is really weirding me out. Especially on the zx-10 forums -- pages and pages of people explaining away the ridiculous price and questionable performance specs. The current running theory seems to be that the H2 is actually way more than 200hp, Kawasaki just doesn't want to tell people for X Y and Z reasons. Because that makes lots of sense. Give me a break. Before the torque numbers were released, there were people trying to say the H2 may be kinda low on horsepower, but the torque is where it will shine...then we learn it has like 83 ft-lbs @ 197 hp, whereas the naturally aspirated Panigale 1299 makes like 210 hp @ 110 lb-ft of torque (or close to it). What a joke.
No, cast pistons are for longevity. They deal with heat better...

Although the engine utilizes the same basic construction as the ZX-10R with a 76 x 55mm bore x stroke totaling up for a 998cc displacement, there are significant differences everywhere to handle the specific durability requirements of a forced-induction engine. For instance, the cast pistons—not forged, as cast pistons allow a more intricate load-bearing design for strength and heat resistance than forged pistons that must be manufactured for ease of production—are flat-topped and have a reduced compression ratio of 8.5:1 (versus the standard ZX-10R’s 13:1) to complement the increased combustion pressures created by the supercharger. Kawasaki says that the only difference between the H2 and H2R engines are the camshafts, head gasket, and clutch.
You know you can't compare the torque curve of an Inline 4 and desmo V twin, those are the torque kings of the league. Talk about a massive skew.

I'm not sure where you got 83 ft-lbs from everywhere I've read lists 98 ft-lbs, I do know that 83 ft-lbs is the stock listing for a ZX-10. But lets compare it with other big name 1000cc inline 4's shall we? 2013 R1 was making 84 ft-lbs, s1000 makes 83 ft-lbs and the new 2014 fireblade is also making 84 ft-lbs.... Yea.
 

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Will not be purchasing the H2.


reason #1 price is too, too high. should be at $19,995

reason #2 weight is too, too much. over 500lbs. ridiculous!!!

reason #3 engine is completely different than H2R, cannot get R power out of H2.


Very disappointed with Kawasaki.


Looking at possibly putting down deposit on Yamaha R1M.
 

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The first part of reason #3 , i.e., "engine is completely different than H2R" is total B.S. :nerd:

I wonder how many people who have such acrimony towards the H2 would still have such bitterness if they could afford the bike. ;)
If you did your research, you would find out the facts about the 2 DIFFERENT engine's.

Almost everything, but the actual engine block is different:

- crank and cams different
- cylinder head different
- oiling and cooling system different
- bottom half is different
- all gearing and actual gearbox is different
- fuel injection and fuel feeds are different
- all pressure seals and gaskets are different
 

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If you did your research, you would find out the facts about the 2 DIFFERENT engine's.

Almost everything, but the actual engine block is different:

- crank and cams different
- cylinder head different
- oiling and cooling system different
- bottom half is different
- all gearing and actual gearbox is different
- fuel injection and fuel feeds are different
- all pressure seals and gaskets are different

Provide links to your sources otherwise pure hearsay.

"Almost everything, but the actual engine block is different" is in direct contradiction to what is found here:

Kawasaki Ninja H2 Arrives: New Benchmark for Road-Legal Performance « MotorcycleDaily.com ? Motorcycle News, Editorials, Product Reviews and Bike Reviews

where it states, "Kawasaki says that other than “camshafts, head gaskets and clutch, the engine is the same as the unit found in the Ninja H2R.”

Regardless of the actual truth, you are very fortunate then that you cannot afford such an inferior product from Kawasaki.

Those of us you can will just have to somehow cope with owning such an albatross.

Please pray for us! :laugh:
 

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Yamaha R1M is what I am shooting for.

I have respect for anyone who purchase's the H2. It is a great bike.
Only unfortunate about, The price, The weight, The substantial engine difference's,
The clutch/gears alone, is one third of the engine, add the above mentioned engine
difference's

Best of luck, IF? you get one.
 

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At 30K here in Australia you can buy a lame car or a special motorbike in the H2 with ultra sports car beating performance and street cred. Kawasaki dudes' take is probably, if people are complaining about the price, they're not our target market anyway.

Rock.
 
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