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Questions on Dyno results from Brock's Flash, Slip-on, and PCV Results

23K views 51 replies 17 participants last post by  Lippyh2sxse 
#1 ·
I was able to update my H2 in Aug by purchasing the Stage 2 kit from Brock - slip on, flash, and PCV.. The dealership that I purchased the bike was able to manage the install.. Unfortunately, they do not have a dyno which could provide me some base numbers to compare before and after results.

I had a opportunity to have the bike put on a dyno during a local event. I was able to meet with the owner of the dyno and have him do a few pulls so I may get a idea what type of power the bike was putting down to the rear. We reviewed the tire pressure (38 rear), KTC off, and weather was 72 degrees {did not have humidity readings}. Also, the dyno jet was a 250i .. The owner advised that the 250i was a low reading dyno. He had 2 other H2's (stock) run a 196 and 198 whp as well as 96 and 98 ft/lb torque.

The graph below shows the result from the dyno pull. My bike made a 220 whp / 92 torque. My butt dyno felt under whelmed after getting the bike back with the flash and mods. The only difference I could notice was from my butt dyno. The H2 seemed to pull strong from 145-150t through 190+ (GPS) but not sure if that would be due to the flash taking the restrictions off or other adjustments..

This question is for Brock and some of the guys that have already went through the process installing the Brock stage 2 kit.Was there any possible installation problems that could cause the lower torque and hp pulls? The ECU and mods was installed by dealer.

I appreciate the feedback! I have the full exhaust on order along with the DNA air filter.. I wish I lived closer to Brock's shop so they could do the install. Unfortunately, I live to far away. I don't trust dealerships or shops in my area working on this bike
 

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#2 ·
Your readings are in line with an H2 with a flash. Mine had 223 with stock exhaust and stock filter. Next, I am pretty sure Brock does not do installs, but he probably has someone in your area. Next, find a skilled tuner and stick with him. If you use one dyno and get 220 and use another and get 230 with a mod, you will never know if it was the mod, or the dyno switch that made the difference. Always baseline your stuff and test each component individually. The exception is if you bought a tested package from someone like Brock where you got the ECU, the pipe and filter and he gave you a map to use and told you to expect "X" hp on a 250 dyno. Good luck.


Also, you should list your location so others can chime in with their recommendations for tuners.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
Your AFR looks like it is 12:1 across the top? That will rob power on the dyno. Are you using the race gas map with pump gas, by chance?

Also, you are showing an SAE correction factor; STD correction factor would read about 5 hp higher.

And finally, DJ250's can vary by 6-8 hp, depending on installation and setup of the dyno.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Interesting to see the curve on thudson's dyno chart. It peaks in the high 13,000rpm range. The Brock's Flash 2 giving extended rpm over the stock setting.

My bike has the Flash 1, so the 13,000 rpm limit is preserved but the peak power is at around 12,000 rpm. I was hoping to see it higher but thought this was a function of the stock exhaust system and air filter. The torque on the other hand was 99.4 ft-lbs.

Thoughts anyone?
 
#15 ·
I'm not an expert on this so I asked the dyno operator the same question about the AFR. He said he goes by CO content, said it was more reliable and that my bike was in the 5% range. I believe that's 12.6 AFR. I might go for another dyno session though to see if we can pick up a bit more above 12,000.
 
#10 ·
I missed some information on the original posting.. I am located in Mpls Mn. I am running 89 octane pump fuel.. Also, I am running the Brock Slip-on (still have the cat)..

I feel that the Power Commander is not installed properly. After sending out this post, I was up late last night attempting to break down the bike. The lack of space and time prevented me from getting to deep into the break down. I feel that the PCV was not installed properly which hopefully will correct the lower readings. I am going to the original dealership and having them break it down to review the installation.

I can't wait for Brock to send out the next batch of preordered full exhausts.. Once the new exhaust and air filter arrives, I have identified a shop to assist on the installation. I will have Dyno pulls for current set up and the changes so I can identify the proper gains.
 
#11 ·
The PCV is relatively simple to install. The Dyno Jet directions leave a bit to be desired as I had to loosen or move some thing to get it to fit. Essentially you are plugging in a couple connectors and then splicing into three wires (?) and hooking up a ground. When they go to tuning it, I'm pretty sure it won't work if it was done wrong. The tuning is more complicated and you want the best guy you can hire to do it. They don't have to tune each cylinder in 100 rpm segments, but more in a "block" setting in certain rpm groups. What you will notice when it is done right is that it will pick up 3 hp down low and then continue to improve. Some of the low end stumble will also be removed by richening that area too. For fuel, I try to always use a high octane (93), ethanol-free gas. I use the Pure Gas app on my phone to locate that and might even compare with the Gas Buddy app to tell me who has the best prices.


I will be working on my H2 over the next few weeks and will try to get pictures of each step of the installation if anyone is interested.
 
#12 · (Edited)
thudson,

All the above input is valid.

What I don't like are the 'waves' in the top of your chart - that makes me believe that your tire may not have been in proper contact with the drum. Bikes with this type of power will spin the tire and skew your results. 5-10% slippage is a big deal above 200 HP and it's not easy to spot.

One other item: without showing the conditions (temp/humidity/correction factor etc. AKA: print the notes on page 2.-we won't print or post a dyno chart without them..) your chart is little or to no help to a tuner. With this data, we can give you valid feedback. Our bike that just ran at the Ohio Mile LSR event last weekend was 'down' 10 RWHP after we rode it back from the event and straight onto our dyno. This was simply due to a decrease in barometric pressure and an increase in humidity (the H2 will drop @6-8 HP for every 20% or so the humidity increases), compared to when it made it's best power... it still ran 219 MPH and set multiple national (world?) records.

Brock
 
#13 ·
Thanks Brock and Group for comments.. I agree that the lower readings may be attributed to the bike not being strapped in properly causing the rear tire to slip. Also, the weather was humid that day. This was a portable dyno that was set up outside one of the local dealerships. It rained 2 hrs after the bike was dyno'd.

I was concerned since I don't trust many people working on this bike.. I appreciate all the work Brock is doing on the H2 and sharing his personal feedback!
 
#16 ·
Hi. I'm happy with the Bike and Brock is really available and a good person.

But I had the same result.

I had dna filter exhaust without kat with akra terminal no Db killer, power commander and Brock stage2 ecu.

My Bike had around 193 whp before and 218 after the stage2.

I put the Bike in another dyno without forced air and I had same result 220.

After this two dynos I went to a third One with forced air and I Saw 241-242 whp.

I don t know his they can find 250+hp because I put all in my Bike and stil run 220.

I saw now Also 275whp.... I don t know
 
#17 ·
The 274hp was track map & tuned for/w oxygenated race fuel.
I've seen dynos (believe street maps) w/ 255-260 + at places other than at Brocks so 260 is being produced but that was with Brocks full exhaust, could be that's what you need, its what all the testing & tuning for the stage 2 has been with; Brocks full exhaust.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Buying the exact performance package as researched, tested & now proven was the way I thought best to go, using exactly the same 4 bolt ons; stage 2 Brocks ECU Flash, DNA filter, PCV w/ Brocks mapping, Brocks full exhaust.....

I see you have the Akra assume welded in mid pipe. Brock already gave his feedback re: the waves in the of the top of the chart & wheel slippage, drop in barometric pressure, rise in humidity, he's the expert not me by a long shot but noticed Thudson has the OEM cat. I'm sure all the hard work that went into the exhaust to produce the most power is legitimate & fruitful. Besides the whole design of the headers, muffler, etc, guessing but the mid pipe could also be part of why it probably makes more HP, it's not a single pipe but 2 which then leads to one large pipe before the muffler:

 
#19 ·
From 220 to 260 it s not the exhaust.

But Anyway Brock t old me exhaust it s about 7-8 hp no more.

From my poi t of view you have strange dyno in the usa If the ecu is the same.

No exhaust can give in the world 30-40 hp

I told I'm happy but my Bike it s not a 250+ hp bike
 
#21 · (Edited)
I tested my bike before in the same dyno run 193.

After 217. So same dyno + 24 hp.

What I saw is the normal h2 start with 197-198 and arrive with the mod to 250.+50hp

I had +24 hp and normaly I usually test the Bike before and after in the same dyno and same condition.
In this dyno my old zx10 run 210 hp with the big bore pistons and with same torque. So at the moment my Bike it s faster but not so fast ad people say

This my point of view.

And they run 250+hp with only muffler and 260+hp with full exhaust. Exhaust should be 6-8hp. Maybe
It s the difference beetween before and after that it s not enought. Or do you think I need the air only for the stage2?
 
#22 · (Edited)
So what you're saying is you believe the full stage 2 mod is good for the 250+ HP but believe there might be some kind of issue w/ yours?

Wild guess but the result of not using the bike the way it was engineered w/ the ram air or even forced air could be magnified (in both directions, much less hp without, much more hp w/ mod). The more hp it's making the more the designed ram air needed?

Shame it doesn't sound like you have a baseline of the bike in stock form using the Dyno w/ forced air that gave you 241-242 but I've seen stock H2s mostly from 194-197 hp to a high of 204 (but only saw one bike this high, same bike that hit 274 w/ oxygenated race fueltrack map) using that/or your own stock hp #s, you're up approx. 45-47hp w/ forced air. Its more hp in right conditions & more still w/ the full exhaust but what bike produces 45-47hp w/ ECU flash, exhaust, PCV, filter bolt ons?

"Not as fast as people say"? - 8.99 1/4 @ 166mph on the riders second pass (OEM swingarm & wheeling to the 1/8 mile) & 219mph in the Ohio Mile last weekend which believe broke numerous records. These are bolt on stage 2 INITIAL (w Brocks full exhaust) attempts too, numbers that will undoubtedly be broken by the same or other H2s & skilled jockeys. The bike is pretty fast IMO.

 
#26 ·
So what you're saying is you believe the full stage 2 mod is good for the 250+ HP but believe there might be some kind of issue w/ yours?

There has to be something wrong. If Brocks advertises a stock H2 with 193whp and 92wtq and then has that same bike with DNA filter, Slip-on (not full system), stage 2 ECU, and PCV with a map make 252whp and 102wtq after with a gain of basically 59whp.......something isn't right when his bike is only picking up 25whp.

Of course you won't ever exactly replicate the same increase be it all the variables, but it won't be off by 35whp.
 
#25 · (Edited)
It's hard to say what's going on, I mean is there a huge amount of R&D & testing using the exact mid pipe that's welded into your bike, is it exactly the diameter that it should be? I really have no idea. But like I said if it were my bike I would look into Brocks full pipe & use forced air dynos & go from there, the bike was engineered for ram air which I would guess you get more of at speed then sitting on a dyno. Maybe someone w/ more Dyno experience can comment.

I'm not sure if it was due to my exhaust purchase, ECU + PVC purchase or the combination (think it was because of the exhaust) but have free access to switch between the maps all I want.

The vid that was posted on Facebook showing an independent shop & 255hp (93 Oct), Brock commented to 'use 89 Shell & get 260s like they do'. That's why I'm trying to follow the installed bolt ons exactly down to the gas gives me the best shot at hitting exactly what the stage 2 was tuned for. If you're running a different pipe, add different gas, add non optimal conditions/humidity, not enough air, wheel slip whatever, you know it could all be factors. Maybe post up the last Dyno run (241-242) perhaps there's info. in it where others can help.

re: that - In fact I know that information/map for exactly the way the 219mph bike was set up along w/ an additional pump fuel map duplicating the A/F will be available soon & that even on pump fuel the bike should be good for a 210 mph mile.
 
#27 ·
Lots of variables Brock has no control over when a system he setup is fitted onto another bike
any variance in exhaust, fuel, atmospheric conditions, traction dyno type, dyno user , all contribute
I know from my own travels and tuning in Australia and USA the basic fuel available at the pump is different , not just that we measure the octane differently but the viscosity and response the fuel gives
 
#28 ·
Se are talking about 30 hp difference Please....

Or dyno in Italy are different or something is wrong.

And Also I tested 3 different dyno, i didn t tested the Bike in the highter one but for sure Also before in the highter One the Bike had more hp. So probably no 24 hp of gaigne but 28 or 30

But never 50!

Please
 
#29 ·
Can there be something different in European ECU vs. US model? I have ordered US model ECU with Stage 2 from Brock so that I don't need to send my own (euro) ECU to US. Of course I would have preferred European model ECU but it seemed he cannot get it. Malumat, have you sent your own ECU to Brock?
 
#31 · (Edited)
I did in the SAME DYNO 193 whp and after changing ecu 217. This is my experience.

And a friend of mine did the same in UK. I'm not the only One with stage2 with 220 hp it s not only my bike

I had the USA ECU flashed stage2 and I Save my euro ECU stock.

I never tried the Bike before in the 240 dyno but I did it many Times with other bikes and normaly it gave 10-15 hp more.
So at the end If I did it probably I had 205-210 before and 240 after. But in any case no 50 hp more but from 23 to 30.

I tested the Bike on 3 dynos and saw 217-218-241. Same Bike same setup same fuel.
 
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