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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Many people are wondering how my Boost Temps never hit 200* at the track a couple of weeks ago so I'm sharing what I've done. It's not gospel so just take what you can use and ignore the rest.

Setup: Stage 2 Supercharger Gears

Ignition Timing = Stock Peak=33* High RPM=29*
The earlier you ignite the mixture, the longer it burns, and the more pressure you have in the combustion chamber. When adding boost (with gears for example) you create the possibility for detonation and piston/cylinder wall damage. Generally, you remove timing when adding boost. Not the other way around. A friend is running a few more degrees timing on top end with Stage 2 SC gears and he only makes about 3-4hp more up top but needs to run an IC due to heat issues.
Bad Practice:33*-38* advance Anywhere in the rev range - I suspect that by the time the knock sensor kicks in, damage is already being done.

Rev Limiter: Near Stock @ 13,500rpm
Pretty Simple. Increased RPM adds more heat as the engine has to work harder. In turn, there is more wear on the internals (crankshaft journals, main bearings, rod bearings. This is less applicable to boost temps but it's engine heat in general.
Bad Practice:14,000rpm or more

Fuel Choice = VP Racing Blend of Q16 and C12 or straight Q16
Excerpts taken from VP Racing's website:
VP’s fuels—oxygenated or nonoxygenated—vaporize much better than comparable competitive fuels. This means it cools the intake charge, burns faster and yields more efficient combustion.

COOLING EFFECT: The cooling effect of fuel is related to the heat of vaporization. The higher a fuel’s heat of vaporization, the better its ability to cool the intake mixture. The superior vaporization characteristics of VP’s fuels make cooling effect one of their key advantages. A better cooling effect can generate some horsepower gains in 4-stroke engines and even bigger gains in 2-stroke engines. VP’s superior cooling effect can also ensure circle track racers maintain power in the longest races and harshest conditions. In virtually any application, the cooling effect of VP’s fuels will help extend engine life.

With the above in mind, my boost temps crept up to just under 200* F on a dyno session with the Q16 (Granted, some of this may have to do with the skill of my dyno operator but heat is heat). In the real world however, on the race track I didn't even crack 190*F while running a mix of C12 and Q16 on a 75* day. Depending on availability I may experiment with C14 and C16 since they are all within a few $$$ of each other.
Bad Practice: Pump Gas under 93 Octane | Racing (Drag, LSR, Highway) a SC Gear Stage I, II, or III bike on pump gas.

Coolant: I switched from Kawasaki Coolant to Engine Ice. Works good for running a few degrees cooler.

Fuel Mapping: Running a slightly rich AFR, roughly 11.8-12.2 helps keep boost temps under control (The effect is amplified when you're running a quick atomizing race fuel with cooling properties). Unfortunately, the tradeoff is a few peak horsepower, upwards of 10hp based on my dyno results in exchange for cooler running.
Bad Practice: 12.6 and Leaner AFR

So this is basically it. It's not rocket science nor is it extremely clever. Yet, my bike puts out 263hp Uncorrected (257hp SAE) @13,500rpm on a dyno that reads roughly 4hp lower than others in the area. For the way that I use it (mostly track) I don't have to think about boost temps.

Recommendation: If you want to go nuts with ignition timing, run a 12.4-12.8 AFR for those last peak hp, and get away with running cheap gas, then by all means, make sure you grab that IC. :nerd:
 

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Thank you for this, I plan to heed your advice, I want my new machine to live up to its potential reliably. Great vids of you at the track man, that girl of yours is sooo fast, and the exhaust sounds terrific man!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for this, I plan to heed your advice, I want my new machine to live up to its potential reliably. Great vids of you at the track man, that girl of yours is sooo fast, and the exhaust sounds terrific man!
Thanks Niobium.

I'm looking forward to you getting yours so you can share some of your findings as well.
 

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Turbo329, thanks for your thoughts.

Oddly enough I've not paid much attention to boost temperatures when doing standing-miles. Apart from the fact that it's all over in around 25 seconds there are other things to occupy your mind.

We have a meeting coming up in May, I will take a peek. Also a dyno' session before that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Turbo329, thanks for your thoughts.

Oddly enough I've not paid much attention to boost temperatures when doing standing-miles. Apart from the fact that it's all over in around 25 seconds there are other things to occupy your mind.

We have a meeting coming up in May, I will take a peek. Also a dyno' session before that.
Makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't recommend looking down either.

You can place a tank cam there or simply look at your boost temp as soon as you finish the run and add 10* to the readout.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just wanted to update this thread.


I rode the track this weekend and this time I was fit enough to ride full 20 minute sessions. Boost temps never made it past 180*F. The fuel I used was VP Racing C12. I did not run a mix of anything, just straight C12. I used it with my regular pump gas map which is set to about 12.2 AFR. C12 runs a bit richer than pump so I might have been around 11.8-12.0 if I had to guess ( I need to get an AFR gauge).


The temperature was about 82*F so it was a nice and hot day. I think it would be great if more of you did testing with these fuels and put your ignition timing back to stock. I may have cracked the code. :D
 

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I just wanted to update this thread.


I rode the track this weekend and this time I was fit enough to ride full 20 minute sessions. Boost temps never made it past 180*F. The fuel I used was VP Racing C12. I did not run a mix of anything, just straight C12. I used it with my regular pump gas map which is set to about 12.2 AFR. C12 runs a bit richer than pump so I might have been around 11.8-12.0 if I had to guess ( I need to get an AFR gauge).


The temperature was about 82*F so it was a nice and hot day. I think it would be great if more of you did testing with these fuels and put your ignition timing back to stock. I may have cracked the code. :D
How much of those sessions where at wide open throttle or 11k and up and for how long? If you're not creating more boost than you would without the gears then you shouldn't see higher temps right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How much of those sessions where at wide open throttle or 11k and up and for how long? If you're not creating more boost than you would without the gears then you shouldn't see higher temps right?
I'm full throttle out of most corners and hitting at least 12k rpm before the next corner.


By reference, Terry (Racer172) had boost temp issues at his last track day. You don't always need to be flat out in sixth at LSR or on a highway. You can get into trouble with boost temps on track as well using the lower gears aggressively.
 

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I'm full throttle out of most corners and hitting at least 12k rpm before the next corner.


By reference, Terry (Racer172) had boost temp issues at his last track day. You don't always need to be flat out in sixth at LSR or on a highway. You can get into trouble with boost temps on track as well using the lower gears aggressively.

Reason I asked is because the only time I have seen any temps over 200 with stage 3 was when I was either WOT at the track or if I was sitting at a RPM over 10k for too long. I'm pretty sure Don has my timing set to stock and I run Q16 so that could be why I'm not seeing higher temps sooner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Reason I asked is because the only time I have seen any temps over 200 with stage 3 was when I was either WOT at the track or if I was sitting at a RPM over 10k for too long. I'm pretty sure Don has my timing set to stock and I run Q16 so that could be why I'm not seeing higher temps sooner.
Exactly! I could be wrong but I truly believe the timing to be a big part of it. The fuel is just added insurance.

At my last dyno session, after several minutes (maybe 20-30minutes) of off-and-on flat out abuse I barely hit 200* which would probably be more in line with what you were doing at the track. I had a mix of Q16 and C12 for those last runs.

The stock timing gives up a few hp to hotted up ignition maps but I think it's worth investigating for anyone who's not running an IC.

I was really impressed this past Monday running straight C12. I couldn't believe that my temps never made it over 180*F. I was supposed to go do a Land Speed Event this weekend but the weather is not looking up so I made alternative arrangements. I really wanted to see how the boost temps look while flat out in sixth. Maybe soon. Possibly July or Sept. We'll see.

Obviously, guys chasing peak horsepower figures won't be happy running the stock timing and giving back some horsepower but at the end of the day who can really use 250+hp at the wheels?

I still think an Intercooler would make a great addition to a bike running the stock timing + Race Fuel. It'd probably claw back some of that lost hp by cooling the intake charge even more.
 

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Exactly! I could be wrong but I truly believe the timing to be a big part of it. The fuel is just added insurance.

At my last dyno session, after several minutes (maybe 20-30minutes) of off-and-on flat out abuse I barely hit 200* which would probably be more in line with what you were doing at the track. I had a mix of Q16 and C12 for those last runs.

The stock timing gives up a few hp to hotted up ignition maps but I think it's worth investigating for anyone who's not running an IC.

I was really impressed this past Monday running straight C12. I couldn't believe that my temps never made it over 180*F. I was supposed to go do a Land Speed Event this weekend but the weather is not looking up so I made alternative arrangements. I really wanted to see how the boost temps look while flat out in sixth. Maybe soon. Possibly July or Sept. We'll see.

Obviously, guys chasing peak horsepower figures won't be happy running the stock timing and giving back some horsepower but at the end of the day who can really use 250+hp at the wheels?

I still think an Intercooler would make a great addition to a bike running the stock timing + Race Fuel. It'd probably claw back some of that lost hp by cooling the intake charge even more.
Agreed cause I know I'm giving up a nice amount of power running stock timing but right now my priority is to have a bike that's running nice and smooth at the track. I'll probably play around with the timing later once I get either a woolich box or flashtune.
 
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