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R&D looks a bit slow? You have all you need for parts out there right now. Who knows what it will handle, that's dependant on so many variables it's pointless to even bring it up.
 

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Nobody knows exactly what the Max HP/TQ a stock motor can hold. Plus its so many different variables to consider that one guys bike may only hold 260 but the next guy may hold 300. As far as R&D I would say the parts are out there but I don't think they are being tested properly and are being pushed out to the masses for us to stress test.
 
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An important question that wasn't asked is "... for how long".

It's one thing for an engine to survive power level X for 10 seconds on a dragstrip pass, quite another to survive that power level continuously until the tank of fuel is empty (which in our case, could be only 15 or 20 minutes). And it's quite another to survive for 24 hours straight, or to survive regularly doing this for (let's say) 100,000 km.

There is some (perhaps circumstancial) evidence that even at stock power output, the engine will not handle it "continuously" (or for the duration of a tank of fuel).

And don't give me the "... but you can get 500 horsepower out of a Hayabusa stock bottom end" line. It's the same situation. It might withstand it for short periods, but it will not handle it continuously, and it's absolutely certain that the life of the engine would be shortened (probably drastically) if it were regularly asked to put out anywhere close to that much power, even if only for short periods at a time.

There are people in this very thread, who have blown stuff up :)
 

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To get to 400 reliable hp on my old gen 1 busa, was honestly cost prohibitive. I spent more on the engine than the entire bike new, by almost twice. It was the most valuable learning experience that I have had with an engine. But costly and frustrating at times. And it really made me appreciate the H2 in stock motor form that much more. Absolutely amazing machine. And that symphony of an engine... finest pull through to redline I have ever heard. Nothing in the entire world sounds like any H2 ripping past 12,000. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
R&D looks a bit slow? You have all you need for parts out there right now. Who knows what it will handle, that's dependant on so many variables it's pointless to even bring it up.
You are right
Here is your bike. It blows up with simple bolt ons :(
 

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I really don't understand the question.

Isn't there obvious and extreme difference according to operation? (Say, shifting as early as will still have needed torque on upshift, vs hitting 14,200 every time, or doing hundreds of quarter mile runs vs fast street riding that a few times a year gets in a few LSR runs.)

"I have a new knife that I plan to use in some way. Maybe batoning wood, or banging on rocks, or using as prybar, or occasionally cutting string, or maybe just carrying in my pocket, not sure yet. How long will it last? Thanks!"

Or maybe just, "247.5 hp."

That's the ticket. Doesn't matter how you get it or how you use it, 247.5 hp.
 

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That's what I'm talking about. How long it will last with current mods in the market.
"Current mods on the market" are capable of blowing up the engine in seconds. One "current mod on the market" is any of the tuning options that allow reprogramming of the ECU (ANY of them). Set the rev limit arbitrarily high ... kaboom. Set the fuel delivery arbitrarily lean under load ... kaboom. Set the ignition timing too far advanced ... kaboom. No need to even change any hardware.

Or ... those very same modifications can be used to make sensible choices.

And ... "it depends how you ride". There is a lot of hand-wringing about intake air temperatures on these bikes due to the lack of an intercooler. YES, the intake air temperature can get up there if you ride at sustained high revs for a long time. Drag racers won't have a problem with this; they don't run the engine under load at high revs for long enough for it to be an issue. Roadracers generally shouldn't have a problem with this unless they speed up the supercharger AND unless they are at a track that has lengthy straightaways. On any of the tracks that I normally ride at ... my race bike is a Yamaha FZR400. The longest straightaway on any track in this area miiiight allow 15 or 20 seconds of full throttle on a superbike, then you have to shut the throttle to go through a series of corners .. which gives the engine time to cool off. My H2 is a plaything for the back roads. It has seen a motorway once in its entire life. The worst traffic it sees is the 3 km that it takes me to get out of the city where I live. I need my driver's license so I ride sensibly. The intake temperature never gets anywhere close to the areas of concern. And the bike has MORE than enough power ... I can't use it for more than a couple seconds at a time before getting to speeds where the validity of my driver's license would be under threat. It's simply not a problem in these conditions.

If you live someplace where you can do lengthy top speed runs without encountering much traffic and without speed cameras and without attracting the attention of airborne traffic enforcement then yes, you need to pay attention to intake air temperature (so an intercooler should be your first mod), and ignition timing (don't use too much), and air/fuel ratio, and fuel quality, and so forth. And if you think this is ANY different from an aftermarket turbo on a Hayabusa or ZX14 ... It's not. It's the SAME situation.

I have a funny feeling that the original poster doesn't have an H2 and hasn't experienced how bonkers they are in completely stock form.

If you don't want to blow it up ... leave it stock. It already makes more than enough power.
If you insist on tinkering ... an intercooler should be your first mod.
Don't be too aggressive with raising the rev limit.
Don't be too aggressive with ignition timing. More boost will want LESS ignition timing advance.
Don't be too aggressive with leaning it out. This is NOT a normally aspirated engine.
Your riding patterns will be the main determiner of how long it lasts.
 

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I read "stock motor" as being just that, no gearing-up the supercharger or fitting intercoolers. What we used to call "unopened motor" in the old 200MPH Club.

A reflash, a pipe, a power commander and an air filter, keeping it to a safe 13,000rpm. Mine gained nearly 40bhp this way and is (hopefully) ok after three seasons of LSR.
 

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We have had many 250-270 RWHP H2's, using only bolt-on parts and good fuel, run without fail since the bikes were introduced.

650Ib's 2016 H2 gets the **** beat out of it, makes great power (over 200 MPH with his big ass in the saddle), has never missed a beat and has around 8K miles to date.

We have a few 290-300 HP units operating, but the reliability curve is not updated properly, due to the low-milage use of the machines.

Brock
Brocks Performance
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
We have had many 250-270 RWHP H2's, using only bolt-on parts and good fuel, run without fail since the bikes were introduced.

650Ib's 2016 H2 gets the **** beat out of it, makes great power (over 200 MPH with his big ass in the saddle), has never missed a beat and has around 8K miles to date.

We have a few 290-300 HP units operating, but the reliability curve is not updated properly, due to the low-milage use of the machines.

Brock
Brocks Performance
Thanks for answering my question 👍
I assume the 290-300hp bikes having SC gears...right?
Do offer aftermarket rods/pistons yet?
 

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If you don't want to blow it up ... leave it stock. It already makes more than enough power.
If you insist on tinkering ... an intercooler should be your first mod.
Don't be too aggressive with raising the rev limit.
Don't be too aggressive with ignition timing. More boost will want LESS ignition timing advance.
Don't be too aggressive with leaning it out. This is NOT a normally aspirated engine.
Your riding patterns will be the main determiner of how long it lasts.
Excellent post, unfortunately I highly doubt he will even use any of that information. All this guy cares about is someone saying 250whp will last 20,000 miles, and 300whp will 10,000 miles!
 

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If you get that 250 hp by raising the rev limit to (say) 16,000 rpm, and you attempt to use those extra revs, the engine will last the amount of time that it takes to get from idle to 16,000 rpm ... or whatever revs somewhat below that at which explosive unplanned disassembly occurs.

But you could do that same thing and then ride it on the motorway in 6th gear at 100 km/h, never using but a fraction of available power output, and it will probably go 200,000 km or more with the occasional oil and filter change - because your riding conditions never asked for the condition that will blow it up in a second.

The H2 has a relatively standard-issue Kawasaki maintenance schedule.

The H2R requires much more frequent maintenance and it has scheduled bottom-end overhauls based on time spent above 8000 rpm.

That's probably a fair indication.

Your unfortunate unplanned disassembly - which followed quite a bit of hard usage - is another indication.

It's never as simple as X hp will last X hours. It's not a matter of gathering up engines in various states of tune and testing the heck out of them until they break, although that's part of it and I'm quite sure Kawasaki has done just that, and the stock state of tune of both the H2 and the H2R takes into account the outcome of that testing.

There is no high performance bike built today that is designed to go 100,000 km at full rated power continuously. NONE of them are. They will have targets for a certain amount of time at rated power, and a certain amount of time in simulated road-course racetrack usage (which is not 100% duty cycle for the power output), and so forth. These targets are based on the expected or intended usage. Very frequently "the race manual" will recommend a much more stringent maintenance schedule than the standard-issue one.

My little Honda CBR125 probably IS designed to go 100,000 km at full rated power (12 hp) continuously ... because that's how you have to ride it. I still managed to break a wrist pin in that engine (at 37,000 km). ("You broke a Honda single? How the heck did you manage to do that?")
 

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I guess you could use the BMW HP4 Race as an example. BMW specifically spells out, in the fine print, when purchasing the all carbon 215 Hp bike that its engine will "expire" (Their word) in 5,000km (3,100 miles). Meaning replace, in that mileage period. So for a $78,000 bike you will need to replace the engine at 3,100 miles. There is a good example of an engine that's wound tight (think Desmosedici RR wound up). At least we are better off than that "stock" bike.

NOLA
 

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I'd say...sustained speeds of over 8K continuously(like every ride)will lower the longevity of the motor.The H2R service requirements start ticking away at 8K.Adding power mods'mechanically' are gonna add to that schedule.I'm just guessing,but it makes sense to me anyway.Like running to a 14.2 redline all the time.The motor stops making power at what,12,13 something?(stock).So pushing it up there is probably NOT the best idea.Mine CAN hit 14.2.But I rarely hit 14.2 with it shifting and all...only on a top speed run...which now I don't need to do.Already hit what I was aiming at.
 

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For the type of riding that I do I found that 220hp was the sweet spot for getting great drives out of corners.

Once I went up to 250, then 263hp, I had some issues managing the power. There's a fine line between having the power and being able to actually use the power.

My personal belief is that Brocks stage II flash with an EC Intercooler, stock wheelbase, the rpm limit set at 13,800k, and pretty much any exhaust (although I am partial to Vandemon :D ) is the ultimate Highway/track day blaster setup. If you're not land speed racing I don't think there's any real reason to touch the SC gears.

I kinda got called out on FB the other day because I said that I didn't recommend SC gears on a bike being used as a daily driver. My recommendation didn't just have to do with the power increase, but rather it had to do with the reliability concerns of the gears backing out.

I hope no one takes this as condescending but at the end of the day, put any professional rider on a 275hp bike and he'll regularly see 220mph plus. Look at what the Moto GP riders do with 240hp on straights that are only half a mile! lol They hit 210mph easy. Yes they are smaller and the bikes lighter but their riding technique is far superior. Yet there are many of us, probably the vast majority who have 275hp or more that would barely crack 200mph due to poor body mechanics. Most of us don't even know how to tuck properly. Put your chin on the tank, knees and elbows in, while turning the throttle and keep your ass glued to the seat pad, and tell me you're not in pain. lol

The biggest plague to the H2 community is this obsession with Peak Horsepower and quite a few have already destroyed their bikes in the pursuit of such power. Shozo Kawasaki's gotta be rolling in his grave like "WTF?!"
Which honestly makes no sense to me because if horsepower and top speed are your goal you could get a used BUSA in great condition for $5000 and buy a $20,000 turbo kit that would give the bike 450hp and a 275mph top speed.

To the OP, I'm not knocking your thread. It's just that this has been going on for a long time and it seems like folks are never gonna learn.

Flash + Intercooler + Exhaust + Suspension Dial in = WIN

About 220hp - 240hp SAE depending on the dyno and peace of mind.
 
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