Ninja H2 banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Thought I'd try the kebc today to see what it does. The first km's went fine. Indeed less engine braking. At an intersection I had to brake a bit for the cars before me and suddenly the bike went away from me. As if I'd opened the throttle quite a bit. I rear ended the car before me and went flying myself. I'm kinda ok, the bike not so. It could be a riders error, although I ride bikes for over 35 years... I'm gonna have the black box read to see what happened exactly.
Anyone else surprised by the kebc, or the bike in general like this?

Well, at least I made the news...
http://www.zhzactueel.nl/2016/03/26/motor-en-auto-botsen-op-kruising-in-arkel/#prettyPhoto


Could think over this happening for a couple of days now and I don't think it was the kebc. Some writers on this forum made clear to me that the on/off throttle, together with a lousy brake lever position (too high for me) and a light throttle control could result in me opening the throttle while reaching for the brake lever. Especially when ridng slow, like I did, and leaning on the handlebars.
If they can fix the bike I will make some changes to this. If it is a total loss I might not buy another one. I want a bike with which I can ride on public roads without endangering others and myself :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
Thought I'd try the kebc today to see what it does. The first km's went fine. Indeed less engine braking. At an intersection I had to brake a bit for the cars before me and suddenly the bike went away from me. As if I'd opened the throttle quite ba bit. I rear ended the car before me and went flying myself. I'm kinda ok, the bike not so. It could be a riders error, although I ride bikes for over 35 years... I'm gonna have the black box read to see what happened exactly.
Anyone else surprised by the kebc, or the bike in general like this?

Well, at least I made the news...
Motor en auto botsen op kruising in Arkel - ZHZActueel
First off , sorry to hear this news . Are you saying the front wheel locked up when braking ? Who will read the black box for you , Kawasaki ? Please keep us posted on damage , repair cost etc . Supercharged .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
First off , sorry to hear this news . Are you saying the front wheel locked up when braking ? Who will read the black box for you , Kawasaki ? Please keep us posted on damage , repair cost etc . Supercharged .
Nope, didn't lock (I think...). We weren't going that fast. Just wanted to slow things down a bit and away it went... By coincidence(?) on the first trip I wanted to try the kebs...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
please clarify what what happened I am having a hard time understanding what you mean. did you turn on or off your engine braking?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
DeRox you are using 2 different terms here. Your title says KEBC which is engine braking control and then you keep talking about KEBS which is basically the ABS system. So you are either saying that you were trying to use the engine braking to slow you down while coming to a stop and then the engine braking just turned off making the bike freewheel and run long leading to an accident. Or you are saying that you were experimenting with the ABS while coming to a stop and it malfunctioned leading to an accident. Either way, it's a good idea to try new systems and their functions away from traffic. Sorry to hear about your trouble, but if you can clarify what you believe happened, it might help another rider avoid the same fate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sorry about the confusion. It thought it was the Kawasaki Engine Brake System, but it's the Kawasaki Engine Brake Control... Those acronyms...
I put it to 'light' to see how the bike would react. And all went fine. Engine brake was like a two stroker. No problems at first.
I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure the kebc was the cause of my accident, it could have been a coincidence. And I don't want to accuse my beloved motorcycle brand without very good reason.
It could very well have been a riders error, I'm only human after all, last time I looked ;)
I hope Kawasaki is going to read the black box so I can be sure.
Will keep you posted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
I was watching a video review about the KTM 1290 Super Duke GT and he described the electronics. Lots of electronics- Bosch with electronic damping a la BMW and something called motor slip regulation ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F47OgT39fs

Go to 6:30 Motor slip regulation works in conjunction with the slipper clutch. When you change down ... the system adds a bit of throttle so the engine braking is not too severe that it locks up the back wheel. WTF!
Software error in my book. Thinking in a straight line without thinking. I'm changing down cos i wanna stop... so let's add some throttle.. I hope I am wrong here - did I really hear that?
The Bosch system has angle sensing so it adds this delight probably only when you are leaned over. The Mitsubishi does not have lean angle sensors; so presumably will blip whenever it feels like it. No thanks mate.
However similar thing happened to me twice yesterday and has happened before too.
Braking:
The angle of the levers for me are too high. To apply the front brake I have to make the same movement as opening the throttle in order to get my fingers up and over the lever. Fortunately I have a chicken reaction so that whenever I don't like what I sense the clutch goes in- fast or I would have done the same as you. In town , in traffic, dangerous. I think these factory test riders go out on a track and never see traffic.

This throttle if fucking dangerous. One eighth of an inch and you are at 2000 RPM and if a fly farts on it it turns to 3000 RPM. It needs physical damping so that flexing your fingers does not move it inadvertently. The angle of the levers should match the arm angle of a 6 ft westerner so that you don't have to move your wrist up 20 degrees to engage the front brake and the clutch. It might be OK for shorter people but is wrong for me. 5' 11". A UK owner has adjusted his but it requires drilling a new locator pin hole in the bars.
The BMW RR throttle is miles better.You can twist it about 45 degrees and get what the H2 does in the first 15-20 degrees, but the BMW will still be right there with you up to 150 mph. I think the ZX12 R has an elliptical cam that modifies the travel of the throttle.

R
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
I was watching a video review about the KTM 1290 Super Duke GT and he described the electronics. Lots of electronics- Bosch with electronic damping a la BMW and something called motor slip regulation ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F47OgT39fs

Go to 6:30 Motor slip regulation works in conjunction with the slipper clutch. When you change down ... the system adds a bit of throttle so the engine braking is not too severe that it locks up the back wheel. WTF!
Software error in my book. Thinking in a straight line without thinking. I'm changing down cos i wanna stop... so let's add some throttle.. I hope I am wrong here - did I really hear that?
The Bosch system has angle sensing so it adds this delight probably only when you are leaned over. The Mitsubishi does not have lean angle sensors; so presumably will blip whenever it feels like it. No thanks mate.

R
Good work Redshift or should I call you Columbo ? Reading to original posts impressions of what it felt like to him does describe it like the throttle being opened when down shifting ( not a good idea on an H2 when trying to stop! )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
BTW don't let them near your log data. They will zap it if there is a million to one chance it was their software that caused the crash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
This throttle if fucking dangerous. One eighth of an inch and you are at 2000 RPM and if a fly farts on it it turns to 3000 RPM. It needs physical damping so that flexing your fingers does not move it inadvertently. The angle of the levers should match the arm angle of a 6 ft westerner so that you don't have to move your wrist up 20 degrees to engage the front brake and the clutch. It might be OK for shorter people but is wrong for me. 5' 11". The BMW RR throttle is miles better.You can twist it about 45 degrees and get what the H2 does in the first 15-20 degrees, but the BMW will still be right there with you up to 150 mph. I think the ZX12 R has an elliptical cam that modifies the travel of the throttle.

R[/QUOTE]
Yes it's caught a few people out , the surge of power you get from a bump in the road or indeed a "fly farting " can catch you out . The H2 is very unforgiving and needs a genuinely experienced rider so as not to destroy the thing in the first few miles .
I totally agree with you about the levers , I moved mine as far down as possible without filing the peg off within the first day on ownership but they could still do with being lower and I'm only 5'9 .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
It has been done by a couple of us on here,,i have fitted a couple of fibre washers between the throttle and the bar end,yes this slows the return of the throttle but if you get the exact washer thickness you can adjust it by the tension you put on the bar end bolt,also helps when you hit bumps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Good explanation Redshift. Thx. Maybe this was the case. Caught me as 35 year motorcycle veteran totally off guard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
If you don't like the throttle response it has been suggested by Don Guhl that the throttle may be electronically adjusted or damped. I remember a few have tried stronger return spring with good result. Being a long time rider myself I could not get to like the EBC. I like having it feel much more like any classic bike that coasts somewhat when throttle is cut. Engine braking IMO is for hyper control on a track where you're either accelerating or decelerating rapidly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,311 Posts
DeRox, sorry to read about you rear-ending a car. I wasn't sure from reading the post whether you had a problem with the hair-trigger on/off throttle or the KEBS.

The amount of engine braking shouldn't cause you to lose control like that. I don't find the throttle action a problem when stopping, it's starting off or trickling through traffic that can be tricky, I always cover the clutch just in case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It must have been the on/off throttle, combined with the -for me- crappy position of the brake lever and the light throttle control. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
A UK owner has adjusted his but it requires drilling a new locator pin hole in the bars.
The BMW RR throttle is miles better.You can twist it about 45 degrees and get what the H2 does in the first 15-20 degrees, but the BMW will still be right there with you up to 150 mph. I think the ZX12 R has an elliptical cam that modifies the travel of the throttle.

R
The H2 has a quick turn throttle from factory, maybe 60 degrees, as opposed to most throttles at 90 degrees. This in conjunction with the sensitivity of it makes it tricky.
It is only the switchgear that would need new holes in the bars. The levers can be adjusted without drilling.
On my bike, I had to loosen the banjo bolts for the hoses for clutch and brake, to be able to move the levers down enough for me to be comfortable. As stated above, the need to rotate ones throttle hand to reach the front brake definitely gives the occasional throttle input.


Hope all gets fixed or you get a new bike asap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
DeRox,
It must be depressing to see the bike like that; but we are all glad you are fit.

We should log all the accident circumstances so any particular causes can be identified, maybe anonymously if folks don't want to go public.
Why Kawasaki wanted to but a hair trigger on a cruise missile is beyond me.

Thanks Nutter, good information. I am going to see if I can get a less sensitive throttle fitted and move the levers about 20 degrees; if the switches can go with them. Someone did say they were not happy with the left hand switch positions; hitting the wrong one, (up/down)
If you drive several bikes it is awkward if one has a 60* throttle and the others have 90's! You can sort of forget the difference when concentrating on driving in traffic.

R
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Latest news: the bike is declared a total loss. So the rest becomes even more rare ;)
I get exactly what I've paid for it. Problem is that there are no second hand H2's offered here... And a new one is (probably) too expensive...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
That's crap, going on the costs of parts I think any type of accident will cause a total loss.I was told the frame that was replaced on my bike was $6,000 Aud plus change over cost ,Super charger unit $$3,500 and rear wheel bearing and seals $800.00 all plus labour,god knows what a fairing set and tank would be.Bad luck with your bike maybe just wait as there seems to be a few coming up in Australia,i think some people realized it was too much bike for them or it was not comfortable or didn't suit them,or they realized there not an investment in the short to medium term as a new model was released.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top