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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Trying to troubleshoot this one...



I dropped the bike off at a tuner who I completely trust. The only thing that has really been done since it last was on a dyno and was making over 200hp was a full exhaust install with an O2 sensor removal and exhaust valve removal. To try to rule out things I reflashed it to completely stock map, and the only things I've done are disable error codes for O2 sensor and exhaust valve.

His description: "Almost seems like traction control is kicking on, but it's off... I tried it TC on 1 and it kicks in like it should. With it off, it's like it tries to kick in above 70% throttle."

There is some underlying problem here but neither one of us can fathom what the **** it can be.

Anyone have any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's very possible I could have unplugged something while removing the tank without noticing it. I'm going to strip the bike down to check. I can't imagine what else is causing it to be so unbalanced.
 

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Waaaaayyyy rich. The air/fuel graph is flatlining indicating that it's actually richer than the sensor can detect (they usually max out near 10:1). The little uptick in the middle of that flatline could very well be rich misfire, since misfire leads to oxygen in the exhaust stream and that's the only thing the oxygen sensor can detect; it doesn't care that there is excess unburned fuel along with that oxygen; it only sees the oxygen.
 

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Waaaaayyyy rich. The air/fuel graph is flatlining indicating that it's actually richer than the sensor can detect (they usually max out near 10:1). The little uptick in the middle of that flatline could very well be rich misfire, since misfire leads to oxygen in the exhaust stream and that's the only thing the oxygen sensor can detect; it doesn't care that there is excess unburned fuel along with that oxygen; it only sees the oxygen.


I agree here that it's waaaaaay rich. It could be something simple like a faulty or stuck injector.


If you have a Power Commander, remove it and see if the bike improves. Otherwise, you might want to test all of your injectors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry I should have been more clear, I know it's insanely rich, was hoping there might be some ideas on the root cause because I can't fathom what's causing it. It's so off that I don't want to tune it to fix it since there's clearly an underlying problem.

There's no Power Commander, just Woolich ECU flashing hardware. The ECU is currently flashed to stock just with the error codes for O2 and exhaust valve removed. I'm thinking I must have unplugged something while removing the tank. Time to strip her down and see what's up.
 

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Totally a zx10 issue but could you have kinked a fuel line? I'm unfamiliar with the layout or if this is possible. Happens all the time after moving tank on gen 4 zx10. Just a thought
 

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Are you sure its the stock flash , did you download and save yours before loading supplied maps
Base map could be someones idea of an improvement and not dead original
+1 on the new plugs and tighter gap, even put some non irridium plugs in while you sort it out , expensive plugs dont last any longer than cheap ones when your rich fouling and once they start breaking down you have to replace them
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah, what I flashed was the map I backed up from my bike before ever touching anything.

Regarding the fuel line, could kinking the fuel line make the bike run rich? Logic tells me it would make it run lean, but my logic isn't always correct.
 

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Gotta be an oxygen sensor issue then. Its not reading how rich it is and keeps adding fuel because the computer isnt reading it. You sure you disabled the error code and not the sensor all together, with the stock map ?

NOLA
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I completely removed the sensor from the bike by unplugging it from under the tank, then disabled it via the Woolich software, I had figured that must be proper procedure... The exhaust doesn't have an O2 bung but I'm halfway tempted to plug it in and stick the sensor near the end of the can to see how it affects things.
 

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This is not my field of expertise, I will leave that to "GoFaster," but if you returned to the stock map and dont have the o2 sensor plugged in, wont the stock map be looking for the reading from the o2 sensor for guidance ?

NOLA
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ah, I see what you mean. Sorry, I returned it to a stock map with the O2 sensor and exhaust valve disabled, nothing else though. My tuner even tried with the bike flashed at 100% stock and letting those error codes run with the same results.
 

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You keep saying letting the error codes run....who cares about error codes on the dash. If it needs an o2 sensor and you unplugged it, its like you trying to ride the bike with a visor with oil all over it...you can kinda ride in a straight line, but it doesn't exactly work well.

NOLA
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've reached out for Woolich for clarification, but it's my impression that disabling the O2 sensor completely disables it, as in the bike shouldn't even be looking for a reading. If I'm completely off base about this I would love if the solution was that simple.
 

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Maybe you should reach out to KAWASAKI since you are RUNNING THE STOCK MAP NOW, which is looking for an o2 sensor.

Ok, im done. Good luck with your issue.

NOLA

P.S. I hope I am totally wrong and o2 sensor retarded. Someone will clarify.
 

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I completely removed the sensor from the bike by unplugging it from under the tank, then disabled it via the Woolich software, I had figured that must be proper procedure... The exhaust doesn't have an O2 bung but I'm halfway tempted to plug it in and stick the sensor near the end of the can to see how it affects things.
I wouldn't be surprised if somehow one of your injectors got stuck. Although somewhat rare, it's entirely possible.


Pull the plugs first and check their condition to see if it's one cylinder that's running rich versus all four.


If it's all four cylinders it could be O2 sensor related or a possible fuel mapping issue.
 

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Yeah, what I flashed was the map I backed up from my bike before ever touching anything.

Regarding the fuel line, could kinking the fuel line make the bike run rich? Logic tells me it would make it run lean, but my logic isn't always correct.
The bike will run fine but once it starts to make hp will fall on its face.
 

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It's not the O2-sensor, stock sensor is a narrow-band sensor and the ecu use it when u are cruising. As soon as you twist the throttle a little bit the ecu will use the fueling maps to deliver the right amount of fuel.
Maybe it uses the O2-sensor to control the airswitching valve also to give the catalyst perfect conditions when u twist the throttle but it does'nt have any impact on fuel delivery other than at cruising speeds. And, according to the service manual, if the ecu senses there is something wrong with the O2-sensor it will just disconnect the sensor, it will not go into a limp mode or anything like that.
My bet is that you are having some issues with an injector or the ecu itself.
 

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or there is something blocking the airflow in the exhaust system. I had almost the same afr as u when i disabled the exhaust valve in woolich software, i thought it would leave the valve open all the time but it was the other way, it was closed all the time and choking the engine. since you removed the exhaust valve you obviously don't have that problem but if there is an issue with the exhaustsystem it might give you that strange afr you posted.
 
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