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I think to achieve that kind of power they changed the gears on the SC to over drive it even more and if you do that with a real good porting and polishing on the heads you can you can build some crazy power.......Add some MR12 and more power.
 

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I am sceptical about these claims for the simple reason that I belong to a Land Speed Racing Club where there are bikes that manage speeds of this order, and faster. The power needed is usually at least 500 bhp for a regular bike, the H2R is a good way short of this and I know from experience that even on equal power to these (turbo Hayabusas mainly) the H2R is simply not aerodynamic enough.

Another point, how was the speed measured? If the Trickstar bike was using the top-speed recall for this claim, as was the case at the launch where the bikes were showing around 230mph from their memories, the figures will be 10% optimistic. So call it 226mph or 363kph and I might believe it.
 

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Highly doubt the bike is making that much power. They did 385km/hr on the speedometer, but 353km/hr (219mph) from an actual GPS datalog.

I had the video saved, but they deleted it off of youtube.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Highly doubt the bike is making that much power. They did 385km/hr on the speedometer, but 353km/hr (219mph) from an actual GPS datalog.

I had the video saved, but they deleted it off of youtube.
I didn't care so much about top speed. It's just gearing, enough road and testicles at this point. I was curious about the horsepower figure. I saw the video of them with the engine torn down but it didn't say what they were doing. I could see them using a thicker head gasket so they could get a little more air in and make a bigger bang. Never say never but I'm not sure re-gearing the supercharger is even worth the effort. I'd increase the diameter of the runner, housing and blades long before I tried that…

I'd love to know what they did.
 

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^Thicker head gasket would lower the compression, which would decrease engine response and power output. I would have to see a dyno graph before I believe anything about 400hp on that bike, which is probably rated at the crank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
^Thicker head gasket would lower the compression, which would decrease engine response and power output. I would have to see a dyno graph before I believe anything about 400hp on that bike, which is probably rated at the crank.
Sooo you're saying by making the H2R's entire crank case different in order to lower the H2R's compression to 8.25:1 from the H2's 8.5:1 that Kawasaki actually decreased the engine response of the R?

:D

Normally aspirated rules don't apply to forced induction. Lower compression allows a blown motor to stuff more air and fuel in without over-compressing the extra volume and blowing the head off. Trickstar lowering compression actually makes sense - what's the ram air pressure like at 220-240mph?
 

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As much as I respect Trickstar considerably, there is a longer version of the video where they show the actual speed as recorded by a GPS sensor, which puts the bike at 354KmH.

By all means extremely fast, but also corresponding to Brock's 219MpH speed recorded by his H2 at the standing mile competition some time ago.

It's funny, all traces of that longer video and all comments on the Facebook H2 page have been removed... I clearly remember commenting on a post that talked about the video, and multiple people noticed how at the end of the video they showed a laptop screen that reported the actual speed.
No sign of that post on Facebook at all anymore (to the point that in my FB activity log the comments I made also disappeared), and I cannot find the video on youtube either...

Ok, on this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWQH7MDPuqM) if you read the description text (in Japanese) they report the actual registered speed: 352.99 KmH

Frio
 

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Sooo you're saying by making the H2R's entire crank case different in order to lower the H2R's compression to 8.25:1 from the H2's 8.5:1 that Kawasaki actually decreased the engine response of the R?

:D

Normally aspirated rules don't apply to forced induction. Lower compression allows a blown motor to stuff more air and fuel in without over-compressing the extra volume and blowing the head off. Trickstar lowering compression actually makes sense - what's the ram air pressure like at 220-240mph?

Lower compression allows the engine to run more power safer and be less prone to knock. It doesn't matter if it's N/A or boosted, higher compression yields more power and better response at the same psi.

Back in my day of boosted cars we were typically running 9:1 with our 400-500hp street setups, with an 11:1 setup on one of our race only track cars we would hit the same power with much less psi, and the turbo would spool up quicker too.

Lower compression has always made less hp per psi than a higher compression motor with the same setup, but the lower compression setup can compensate with being able to run more PSI, unless you are going out of your efficiency rating of the turbo of course.
 

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As much as I respect Trickstar considerably, there is a longer version of the video where they show the actual speed as recorded by a GPS sensor, which puts the bike at 354KmH.

By all means extremely fast, but also corresponding to Brock's 219MpH speed recorded by his H2 at the standing mile competition some time ago.

It's funny, all traces of that longer video and all comments on the Facebook H2 page have been removed... I clearly remember commenting on a post that talked about the video, and multiple people noticed how at the end of the video they showed a laptop screen that reported the actual speed.
No sign of that post on Facebook at all anymore (to the point that in my FB activity log the comments I made also disappeared), and I cannot find the video on youtube either...

Ok, on this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWQH7MDPuqM) if you read the description text (in Japanese) they report the actual registered speed: 352.99 KmH

Frio

Yes, I also noticed that the facebook post disappeared out of no where, and the video I had in my favourites was removed from youtube LOL!
 

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^It isn't! The H2R is actually making less than a de-restricted H2. I am waiting for an actual back to back test with both bikes on the same dyno to show this, but stock H2R's have been making a legit 230-240whp on the same dyno's that de-restricted H2's are making 260+whp.

Now the R comes from the factory very rich, so there is more power to be had with a fueling adjustment. The R doesn't have the same setup as the H2 though. It has a different cam profile, probably different timing too. So the comparison isn't realistic given all variables are not equal. If everything was equal and the only change was compression, then you would see a more accurate comparison.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
^It isn't! The H2R is actually making less than a de-restricted H2. I am waiting for an actual back to back test with both bikes on the same dyno to show this, but stock H2R's have been making a legit 230-240whp on the same dyno's that de-restricted H2's are making 260+whp.

Now the R comes from the factory very rich, so there is more power to be had with a fueling adjustment. The R doesn't have the same setup as the H2 though. It has a different cam profile, probably different timing too. So the comparison isn't realistic given all variables are not equal. If everything was equal and the only change was compression, then you would see a more accurate comparison.
I read this like three times but I'm having a little trouble understanding - just to be clear; you're saying that the H2, after a trip to Brock's, is actually making more power than the H2R?
 

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^Yes that is correct. The H2R from the factory is making 230-240whp on multiple dynos. It comes very safe from the factory, IE runs rich. Yes all dyno's read differently, but on those same dyno's the H2 derestricted with a flash, filter, and exhaust will make more.

The H2R can gain A LOT from a flash and or aftermarket tune.
 

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^Yes that is correct. The H2R from the factory is making 230-240whp on multiple dynos. It comes very safe from the factory, IE runs rich. Yes all dyno's read differently, but on those same dyno's the H2 derestricted with a flash, filter, and exhaust will make more.

The H2R can gain A LOT from a flash and or aftermarket tune.
Truth be told, I found this really hard to believe simply because I can't fathom Kawasaki building the H2R and holding anything back, but I did see the Don Guhl made some pretty big gains from flashing the H2R. But that raises the question, why would Kawasaki do that? Is it to help the reliability of a bike without a warranty?

Anyhow, I found the dyno graph of an H2 vs H2R stock vs H2R flashed, but did Guhl ever run a flashed H2 on the same dyno?
 

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^What you saw from Don was an H2R with an H2 ECU. Yes I do believe Kawasaki made the H2R run rich and safe. It still makes good power, but can still make more. There was about a 10mph gain in the half mile between a stock H2R and an H2R with a Guhl flash.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you read Fast Bikes you'd know the reason those bikes dyno'd low was the size of the room the dyno was in. The H2R requires volume. Lots and lots of volume. At full tilt, its moving so much air that within a second or two it'll empty a normal sized dynomometer booth and produce low numbers. Don't take my word for it, Fast Bikes solved that mystery months ago.

You don't really think Kawasaki plumbed the resources of their entire company, massaged and re-designed every square inch of the H2R inside and out, created an entirely new front end, runner design, air filter, fuel pump, ECU map, cams, exhaust and crankcase - if all they had to do was call Brock Davidson and order a Don Guhl/DynoJet map and a Hindle, do you?

God bless your enthusiasm man but c'mon.
 

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If you read Fast Bikes you'd know the reason those bikes dyno'd low was the size of the room the dyno was in. The H2R requires volume. Lots and lots of volume. At full tilt, its moving so much air that within a second or two it'll empty a normal sized dynomometer booth and produce low numbers. Don't take my word for it, Fast Bikes solved that mystery months ago.

You don't really think Kawasaki plumbed the resources of their entire company, massaged and re-designed every square inch of the H2R inside and out, created an entirely new front end, runner design, air filter, fuel pump, ECU map, cams, exhaust and crankcase - if all they had to do was call Brock Davidson and order a Don Guhl/DynoJet map and a Hindle, do you?

God bless your enthusiasm man but c'mon.
I'd be feeling pretty bitter if I owned a standard H2R and could have had more power with a few choice bolt ons to a road legal H2... **** ! ;)
 

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If you read Fast Bikes you'd know the reason those bikes dyno'd low was the size of the room the dyno was in. The H2R requires volume. Lots and lots of volume. At full tilt, its moving so much air that within a second or two it'll empty a normal sized dynomometer booth and produce low numbers. Don't take my word for it, Fast Bikes solved that mystery months ago.
I knew I was forgetting something... Motorcycle.com recently posted this article which I found interesting and threw me off a bit: Kawasaki H2R 200-mph Review

When I looked up an image of the dyno they used to get the 231 hp number I'm definitely in agreement with you:



But also like you said, purely from a logic standpoint it just doesn't add up. If flashed H2 was more powerful than stock H2R, then what the **** did Kawasaki go through all of the trouble of reengineering the H2R for if slapping in a different ECU yielded a superior product. They could've just done that, added some carbon fiber, and laughed as people bought a twice as expensive product with no warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
I knew I was forgetting something... Motorcycle.com recently posted this article which I found interesting and threw me off a bit: Kawasaki H2R 200-mph Review

When I looked up an image of the dyno they used to get the 231 hp number I'm definitely in agreement with you:



But also like you said, purely from a logic standpoint it just doesn't add up. If flashed H2 was more powerful than stock H2R, then what the **** did Kawasaki go through all of the trouble of reengineering the H2R for if slapping in a different ECU yielded a superior product. They could've just done that, added some carbon fiber, and laughed as people bought a twice as expensive product with no warranty.
I read that motorcycle.com article twice and its two-wheeled Idiocracy. They couldn't have possibly done more wrong or knee-capped that H2R they were testing any worse. On day two they swapped its factory ECU for Gadson's. Yeah, lets use a tune done on a bike with half the intake size of an H2R and stick it in there. Brilliant. They even said in the article;

"But no matter how it was ridden, the stock H2R would not break into the 190-mph range on Sunday. The day previous, all my runs but one were at 190 mph or higher. The H2R’s power just didn’t feel as crisp, and the best I could muster on Sunday was 189.4 mph set around noontime. I began to wonder if our bike had somehow lost some of its power." Yeah, its because you took the right ECU out and put RG's in. Clearly you've made a mistake. Why not try to figure it out rather than blame the bike you needlessly screwed with your complete ignorance.

They kept seeing problems all day but rather than figure out what they might be doing wrong, they chose to just wrinkle their noses at Kawasaki. I'm not going to be nice, those guys are Idiots. I started looking last night, in addition to the size of the room and that pathetic fan, there might also be something wrong with MotoGP werks dyno - apparently every bike they dyno in there shows low compared to factory claimed numbers. Even the caption on that pic you posted has some quip about 'the dyno proves the factory lies' or some such nonsense.

Moroncycle.com just made the water even muddier. This is what happens when the non-technical get technical; they break things, blame other people and make everyone dumber by talking about it. They need to change their testing methods and start printing apologies and retractions.
 
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