Ninja H2 banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am planning to have my H2 reflashed, so I am trying to figure out who's best to reflash my baby. Ghul or ECUnleashed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,311 Posts
I have used Ghul, via Brock's Performance, for my 1400 and my H2. No complaints, they're helpful and contactable with a fast turn-around. I recommend them. I've not tried ECUnleashed.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
699 Posts
I opted for FT (FlashTune) because I could get it done locally. Would have loved to get it done by Guhl, but the currently lousy CAN$-US$ exchange rate plus the potential cross-border shipment and taxation issues made that unfeasible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
CJS racing UK are also doing a reflash £499 inc vat and return. 47hp increase. Thinking about it over next winter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
835 Posts
CJS racing UK are also doing a reflash £499 inc vat and return. 47hp increase. Thinking about it over next winter.
£499 sounds a lot until you think about what you would have to spend to get 47 HP using different engine internals. £10.60 a horse sounds like a bargain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Hi all , just wondered if anyone contacted CJS regarding a reflash? Doesn't seem to be any info or feedback online, just the advert and price of £499 with no results posted... He has very good feedback on the ZZR/ZX14 forums but nothing re H2


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
The downside to having Don Flash the ECU is they lock them afterwards if you make any modifications to the bike you have to send it back to them to be unlocked and changed. If you decide down the road to change the supercharger gears and modify boost you will have to pull the ECU and send it back to get the timing changed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,179 Posts
I am planning to have my H2 reflashed, so I am trying to figure out who's best to reflash my baby. Ghul or ECUnleashed?
I went w/ Guhl/Brocks & couldn't be happier.

You should reach out to members "BDP Performance" or "Rhody" regarding ECU Unleashed, this co was using a H2 reflash dyno chart on their website that wasn't theirs/was actually from a sub dealer of BDP Performance/ without their permission:



This dyno was a copy


Of:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
702 Posts
I don't like the idea of an ECU being "LOCKED". It doesn't come locked from the factory.

Hopefully I'm wrong but it sounds as if this virtually renders the box useless for any future tuning on the part of the bike owner.

If that's the case, hopefully Guhl has this posted on his site for potential customers.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
428 Posts
I don't like the idea of an ECU being "LOCKED". It doesn't come locked from the factory.

Hopefully I'm wrong but it sounds as if this virtually renders the box useless for any future tuning on the part of the bike owner.

If that's the case, hopefully Guhl has this posted on his site for potential customers.
Nothing comes 'locked' from Brock's Performance. We work directly with Guhl, but have a little different means to an end. We use a PCV to control fueling, this way, if the customer wishes to make adjustments to the fuel map - it does not require an ECU extraction (a royal PITA on the H2). This also allows for dual fuel maps to be selected at the flip of a switch (race vs. street etc.). And allows updated fuel mapping/tuning help to be sent via e-mail. Any internal ECU map updates (addition of auto blipper, 200+ MPH speedo etc.) are free - the customer simply pays postage.

We are not the least expensive option, we are not trying to be. Our products are tested beyond the standards of most and our customer service is stellar. If you have a question, call, e-mail, pm, facebook message or get with us via online chat... we are always available and ready to help.

Brock
Brocks Performance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
3 months ago I installed supercharger gears in my H2 with a brocks stage 2 Kit. With no maps available for this combination from Brock's I opted to take the bike to a professional tuner. He said with the added boost we would need to pull some timing out of the bike. So I purchased a woolich racing on the bike flush kit. Dyno tuner said some companies will lock the ecu's after reflashing them and I would need to check with the company that flashed it to confirm it was not locked. The next day I called Brock's performance the guy on the phone said he did not know and put me on hold. Came back a few minutes later and said yes I would have to remove the ECU and send it back to Don and he would unlock it turn it back to stock and send it back to me. So what you are saying is contradicting what your staff told me on the phone. I will install the woolich Box and see if I can access the timing in the ECU thanks for the information
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Brock doesn't even know that Guhl locks the ECUs lol. That's exactly what Guhl has been doing for years. Guhl does it to protect his files, his work product, I get it, I understand it, but apparently Brock doesn't. And of course he loves selling Pigs and pig maps.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
428 Posts
3 months ago I installed supercharger gears in my H2 with a brocks stage 2 Kit. With no maps available for this combination from Brock's I opted to take the bike to a professional tuner. He said with the added boost we would need to pull some timing out of the bike. So I purchased a woolich racing on the bike flush kit. Dyno tuner said some companies will lock the ecu's after reflashing them and I would need to check with the company that flashed it to confirm it was not locked. The next day I called Brock's performance the guy on the phone said he did not know and put me on hold. Came back a few minutes later and said yes I would have to remove the ECU and send it back to Don and he would unlock it turn it back to stock and send it back to me. So what you are saying is contradicting what your staff told me on the phone. I will install the woolich Box and see if I can access the timing in the ECU thanks for the information
mikesh2 very sorry for any misunderstanding. I would hope no one on the Brock’s Performance customer service team would have told you your ECU was locked? However, our policy is to advise you to return it directly to Guhl for any/all internal changes (and that this is typically at no charge :D) – you just pay shipping.

That is from a customer service standpoint… As far as ‘locked’ goes, from an engineering standpoint: There is no need to get into the complexity of truly locking Mitsubishi ECU’s or the use of initialization codes. All most need to know is that Guhl’s software/technology is more sophisticated than anyone else on the market, which does lead to compatibility issues. If someone wants to tune their own previously Brock’s-flashed ECU, they are welcome to send it back to Guhl to be returned to stock – then tune away! That said, if you do try to read a Brock’s/Guhl or Guhl file, you can’t, but you can install a stock .bin file and the bike will run just fine. THAT is the difference between truly locked and simply incompatible…


Brock
Brocks Performance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
702 Posts
Guhl does it to protect his files, his work product, I get it, I understand it, .



I don't. We're talking a simple de-restriction and some ignition timing changes. It's not rocket science nor is like patenting the cure for cancer. In this day and age of instant gratification, the concept of mailing in your ECU (because his file can only be overwritten and cannot be edited according to Brock's post) and having your bike inaccessible for a up to a week is Mickey Mouse. ...and as we can glean from this forum, a few customers live overseas.


I'm not drinking the 'Hatorade'. Guhl has done more for the motorcycle industry than I can fathom, I respect his work, I respect him. ...but that would be an inconvenience that I'd be unwilling to live with at least during the riding season. Winter would be a different story.

Guhl's flash puts out great dyno numbers. I've seen 2 Guhl flashed bikes put out very respectable numbers on a dyno that generally reads low (after a custom PCV map). But how could I recommend it to friends knowing that if they wanted to tune specifically for different tracks or different mods they'd have to mail it in every time?


Anyhow, that's just my opinion. I won't harp on the subject because my aim is not to sway potential customers one way or the other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
702 Posts
All most need to know is that Guhl’s software/technology is more sophisticated than anyone else on the market, which does lead to compatibility issues. …


Brock
Brocks Performance


I'm in IT for approx.. 20 years. I know for a certainty that it is possible to create and package a basic application using simple code that could be ran on a workstation that would allow editing of his flash file. Hahahahahahaha. I know enterprise developers that could do that today on their lunch break.


If he so desired, said software could be developed and made available (albeit at an additional cost) that could give customers the ability to tweak on the fly.


Just sayin'.................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,179 Posts
I get it too. There's only a couple of choices; Stage I or II. It's not like there is a large # of engine mods/combinations to consider, theres only a couple that Brocks Performance recommends for the H2. Slip on vs full exhaust, stock redline vs 14k w/ a PCV. He doesn't currently recommend super charger gears or other mods so why would Guhl want people changing his work, adding mods not supported or even not recommended w/ the greater possibility of something bad happening w/ a Guhl/Brock reflash.

I think there's a handful of H2 owners that understand the technology & engineering enough, folks w/ an extremely high level of competence that are using the gears w/ an intercooler, tune for LSR so there's definitely a place for the gears. I doubt it will happen, not really what you call "bolt-on" but if Brocks Performance gets involved w/ gears down the road & they'll fit as well as OEM, w/ a recommended intercooler, different fuel pump, reflash tune specific to a gear package & says I can safely/reliably run it on my street bike that I use in the summer for thousands of miles then it would peak my interest, until then I'm good.

Honestly if it were my reflash/parts business I'd handle it the exact same way. Stage II adjustments to the fuel mapping can be done via the PCV. Street Map or Track Map, I can switch between the maps in a few minutes at home, a lot easier then pulling the ECU on a H2....LSR & want to run the same map that broke mile records then download & run it. But I get not everyone wants to run a power commander.

At the expense of sounding like a fanboy (and that's fine) I'm not going to modify my H2's in anyway above Stage II that hasn't been given Dons & Brocks stamp of approval/unless the parts are available from Brocks Performance, just not. IMO 12 weeks doing H2 R&D work on the dyno, countless hours of research in the shop, out racing & beating records, plus the largest modded H2 customer base to get feedback from that are running their bikes reliably, I'm pretty confident they know what they're talking about.

Agree there are people capable of editing a flash but for every one of those there's probably 2 more that would do more harm than good and then instead of providing customer support you're trying to sort out messy, technical problems that could have already caused harm.

There's other reflash options out there & it's a free world (mostly anyway) but on the H2 no one has put in the time & effort w/ a level of expertise like the guys above. While helping to put the H2s awesome reputation on the map, breaking records, they provided me w/ a reliable, insane sounding & performing motorcycle in the process.

I get that others prefer to do things differently and that's okay but w/ all due respect have to say I think the tone is maybe a little harsh. Honestly, this isn't directed at any one post or anyone specific, it's just something I've noticed over the last 6-9 months - think its probably one of the reasons the forum sees so little contribution nowadays even though there's many more H2 owners out there. In 2015 when the board was more civil, polite, respectful & didn't get personal this was a much better place. We already ran off a number of posters, people from companies that came out w/ H2 products, a well known racer, another with a high profile YouTube channel, others that left were just interesting H2 owners from around the world that I would have loved to hear more from. Come on fellas, we can do better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
702 Posts
I get it too. There's only a couple of choices; Stage I or II. It's not like there is a large # of engine mods/combinations to consider, theres only a couple that Brocks Performance recommends for the H2. Slip on vs full exhaust, stock redline vs 14k w/ a PCV. He doesn't currently recommend super charger gears or other mods so why would Guhl want people changing his work, adding mods not supported or even not recommended w/ the greater possibility of something bad happening w/ a Guhl/Brock reflash.

I think there's a handful of H2 owners that understand the technology & engineering enough, folks w/ an extremely high level of competence that are using the gears w/ an intercooler, tune for LSR so there's definitely a place for the gears. I doubt it will happen, not really what you call "bolt-on" but if Brocks Performance gets involved w/ gears down the road & they'll fit as well as OEM, w/ a recommended intercooler, different fuel pump, reflash tune specific to a gear package & says I can safely/reliably run it on my street bike that I use in the summer for thousands of miles then it would peak my interest, until then I'm good.

Honestly if it were my reflash/parts business I'd handle it the exact same way. Stage II adjustments to the fuel mapping can be done via the PCV. Street Map or Track Map, I can switch between the maps in a few minutes at home, a lot easier then pulling the ECU on a H2....LSR & want to run the same map that broke mile records then download & run it. But I get not everyone wants to run a power commander.

At the expense of sounding like a fanboy (and that's fine) I'm not going to modify my H2's in anyway above Stage II that hasn't been given Dons & Brocks stamp of approval/unless the parts are available from Brocks Performance, just not. IMO 12 weeks doing H2 R&D work on the dyno, countless hours of research in the shop, out racing & beating records, plus the largest modded H2 customer base to get feedback from that are running their bikes reliably, I'm pretty confident they know what they're talking about.

Agree there are people capable of editing a flash but for every one of those there's probably 2 more that would do more harm than good and then instead of providing customer support you're trying to sort out messy, technical problems that could have already caused harm.

There's other reflash options out there & it's a free world (mostly anyway) but on the H2 no one has put in the time & effort w/ a level of expertise like the guys above. While helping to put the H2s awesome reputation on the map, breaking records, they provided me w/ a reliable, insane sounding & performing motorcycle in the process.

I get that others prefer to do things differently and that's okay but w/ all due respect have to say I think the tone is maybe a little harsh. Honestly, this isn't directed at any one post or anyone specific, it's just something I've noticed over the last 6-9 months - think its probably one of the reasons the forum sees so little contribution nowadays even though there's many more H2 owners out there. In 2015 when the board was more civil, polite, respectful & didn't get personal this was a much better place. We already ran off a number of posters, people from companies that came out w/ H2 products, a well known racer, another with a high profile YouTube channel, others that left were just interesting H2 owners from around the world that I would have loved to hear more from. Come on fellas, we can do better.
With all that said, I certainly hope that my posts on this topic aren't coming across as a slag. I was inches close to buying the Stage II Guhl Flash myself, but having to send my ECU was a deal breaker for me. Had the ability to tune on the fly been presented I would have absolutely went with his package. ...and for the reason you mentioned. All of the development.


However, everyone does have a right to express their opinions (respectfully), whether they be in favor of or against. Constructive criticism should always be welcome. ...and there are pros and cons to every option on the market. I'm not sure that I see any disrespect displayed in this entire thread. That's just my opinion though and I respect if anyone (like yourself) feels otherwise.


You may not plan on making modifications and perhaps others buy the package feeling the same way. But over time, people can change their mind, and knowing up front that they will have to send the ECU back because there is no portable solution available is reasonable.


In my first post, I asked if ECUs were being "Locked" without people knowing. Brock cleared that up by indicating that Guhl's file can be overwritten. Also, based on the tone of the posts of owners who currently have Stage II, they all seem to know beforehand that they will have to send their ECU back (with the exception of the 1 poster above). So I don't really have an issue.


I support and respect Brock. I bought Springs and a Slip-on from Brocks' Performance this year. lol. I'm a benefactor of his development. But that should not forfeit the right to be able to ask questions. ..even hard ones.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top