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There are a few people out there offering ECU flash packages for the H2 - and I am a bit puzzled !

As I understand it, the ECU flash will typically remove some of the restrictions in the standard ECU (RPM limit, top speed restriction, throttle restriction at high RPM etc) but won't 'fine tune' the fuelling to suit the derestricted ECU/pipe package fitted to the bike.

Brock's addresses this by supplying a PCV mapped to suit the basic setup of the bike which can then be fine tuned or modified by the user.

But other 'flash' suppliers seem to follow the 'one flash suits all' approach ? Am I missing something here ? I am about to fire my ECU off to Brock's as they seem to have the most experience and seem to be well recommended .........
 

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I am in the midst of a Flashtune once the fellow that I am dealing with gets a hardware problem sorted out (so far, ECU communication has been only one way). Hopefully tomorrow.

I know they are changing mapping but I don't know what they are basing it on. The ECU in this bike is exceptionally complex, there is a lot more to it than a fuel injection map and an ignition timing map.

To be honest, the things that most people do to their bikes and what most people will be doing with them, should be fine with one set configuration that is decently sorted out (and I have no idea how well the tuners have done this). Most people are not changing cam timing, most people are not changing boost pressure, most people are not making exhaust system changes that will appreciably change the bike's fuel delivery requirements. The bike has plenty of power. Even if the canned tune is a smidge conservative, most people aren't going to notice being a couple horsepower down. I know I ain't gonna worry about it as long as it runs correctly.

The stock fuel injection programming is the same for every bike rolling off the line for the same legal requirements. Every bike going to the USA has the same tuning, every bike going to Europe has the same tuning, etc. (We - and Flashtune - did establish with my particular bike that the Canadian-model ECU is not the same as the US-model ECU! this is part of why mine has taken a little while to sort out)

Brock's is a good choice. Only reason I didn't go that route is the C$ - US$ exchange rate is killer right now and I'm not entirely trustworthy of customs not killing me with tax on the full value of the ECU (I have had this happen before).
 

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I am fine with a "canned" tune as well.

It's just that at this point no one seems to have just a flash that compensates for the throttle body de-restriction.

The current popular choices require the use of either a power commander and or some form of autotune.

These are fine, but what holds me back are: 1) Price ($1000 to $1400 CAD) and 2) Both require permanent mounting (and wire tapping).

Haven't decided which way to go yet, but a "one size fits all" would be good enough, as long as it runs correctly for me:)
 

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Flashtune won't require any additional hardware, nor will Guhl's reflash on its own. You don't need to use it in conjunction with a power commander or autotune.

I am dealing with Fast Company in Breslau ON (i.e. Scott Miller) - who have been building race bikes for as long as I can remember.

Don't know exactly what the $ is going to be yet but it's not going to be a grand ... and no cross border shipping for us Canadians.

Mine is the first one they've got in hand and appears to be the first Canadian-spec model that Flashtune ran across - it was something of a surprise that the ECU was not the same as the American model. Once mine's sorted out, any subsequent ones should be straightforward.
 

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Thanks for the heads up on Flashtune. Interested to hear how yours turns out!

Surprising to hear about the US vs CDN variation. Thought they had been the same for years.

I believe I heard Brock state (supported by disclaimer below), the H2 is VERY rich once the butterflies stay at 100% This seems to be supported by Woolich recommending an autotune after re-flash...this is why I was leaning that way.

"WARNING: Due to the extreme nature of the Ninja H2, all Brock's Performance exhaust systems are designed to be used in conjunction with a Dynojet PCV and Brock's Performance fuel mapping installed at a minimum. The addition of a Brock's Performance ECU flash with our exhaust, PCV and fuel mapping is recommended for optimum performance."
 

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I am currently running my H2 with the stock exhaust in Land Speed Racing events here in the UK. Trying to get the best results for the standard bike before I join the party and fit a race system. I know that will gain me another 40bhp or so but for now let's see what it can do as it is.

Early last year I sent off the ECU to Brock for the Guhl reflash to derestrict it and while some say nothing else is needed when keeping things like exhaust stock: we measured the power output with just the ECU flash at 209bhp, then we fitted a PCV and created a custom map on the GT Motorcycles dyno' and gained another 11bhp.

With the stock fuel map, shown by Don Guhl last year, the fly-by-wire throttle is gradually closed above 10,000rpm in the H2. With the ECU flash you lose this and with 100% throttle may need adjust things at higher revs to optimise the power output. Also there are the parts of the map where emissions are measured which can be readjusted for best power. With a Power Commander it's a convenient way of mapping the bike, new maps or multiple maps can be used and getting back to square one is easy too.
 

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2) Both require permanent mounting (and wire tapping).
The Woolich option doesn't require any permanent mounting nor does it require any wire tapping, stripping or soldering. It is 100% plug and play and 100% reversible with zero damage to anything on the bike, the ECU, the connectors, etcetera in either the removal or installation of the kit.

You also don't NEED the autotune. That's just for the guys that want the absolute most out of the bike they can get. You can get the lower cost USB module and take that along with your laptop to a tuner and they can tune it there on the dyno for you all through the ECU, no piggybacks needed. The software isn't too complex, I mean if they can handle using the DJ software, this is tuned the same way; +/- percentages.

As far as the cost, I can't do much to help you out there; the CAD<--->USD rate sucks right now. If you want a discount on a package, all you have to do is ask ;) I also have a few tricks up my sleeve to keep the import duties/taxes down on you guys as well.
 

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You don't need to use it in conjunction with a power commander or autotune.
They say that, but unless you run it on the dyno and check it out at the various TPS/RPM breakouts (not just WOT) how do you, as a consumer, know for sure?

After any send in flashing, you should automatically allocate another $75-100 to at least observe and monitor the AFR to see how the bike runs and runs at all ranges, not just WOT.
 

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^ You don't.

For someone like BobC who is using the bike for land speed racing, it matters.

For the average person who is riding on public roads and will see full throttle a minuscule fraction of the time, 210 hp vs 220 hp (or whatever it amounts to) is still "faster than buddy on that pesky S1000R".

In reality I will probably take the bike to Fast Company after the initial flash is done and installed to see if it is in the ballpark and if it's worth doing anything further with it.
 

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In reality I will probably take the bike to Fast Company after the initial flash is done and installed to see if it is in the ballpark and if it's worth doing anything further with it.
Which is the right thing to do... there can be a lot of variance between two bikes.

Case in point: Here are two 2012 ZX-10Rs. Purchased the exact same day, by the same individual, at the same dealership, fitted with the exact same mods (one bike was a track bike the other a street bike) with both being tuned on the same day obviously on the same dyno, one right after the other. Here are the differences in their fuel mapping on their PCVs between the two virtually identical bikes. Both ECUs were flashed to the same extent with a base derestriction flash and then he wanted the fueling handled solely on the PCV.

The preview is tiny, you'll have to click to blow it up to see the values.
pcv-diff.jpg

As you can see there are small minor variances of 1-2% here and there amongst some slightly larger considerable variances at 5, 6, 8%. But you'll also see some higher more concerning variances of 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16% all in 5-15% throttle ranges. So with canned maps downloaded off the internet, flashes with fueling added, one should still check. At least you'll get a complete picture of the state your motor is running in and if you stand to gain anything (substantial) from additional tuning as well as possibly rectifying any future issues from the bike being too rich or too lean.
 

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Thanks for the insight Anthony!

I guess what it boils down to is, if you don't have easy access to a dyno for tuning, then we really should have an autotune...

For me the cost would probably be similar as I live in the sticks:(
 

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Or just take the canned tune and call it good enough.

I have another bike where I have the technology for fiddling with the fuel delivery, and while indeed it does noticeably lose power if set excessively rich and it kills gas mileage if it is too rich at part throttle, there is a pretty wide range where, by riding the bike as opposed to watching an air/fuel gauge, it really doesn't make any difference that you can tell. The dyno can pick up a difference of a couple or three horsepower but your butt dyno, not so much!
 

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Or just take the canned tune and call it good enough.

I have another bike where I have the technology for fiddling with the fuel delivery, and while indeed it does noticeably lose power if set excessively rich and it kills gas mileage if it is too rich at part throttle, there is a pretty wide range where, by riding the bike as opposed to watching an air/fuel gauge, it really doesn't make any difference that you can tell. The dyno can pick up a difference of a couple or three horsepower but your butt dyno, not so much!
You are likely bang on, I just don't want to risk hurting this engine over cheaping out:eek:
 

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No question, if you can get an idea of the air/fuel ratio that the engine is seeing and you have the capability of adjusting it somehow, it's better than not knowing. But it doesn't necessarily have to be an auto-tune setup. It could simply be an air/fuel gauge.

I tuned the PCIIIusb in my ZX10R manually using an air/fuel gauge. No auto-tune.

Tuning by air/fuel ratio is not a full substitute for tuning by dyno. You have to "give the engine what it wants". Some engines run well quite lean (automotive stuff is often like this because of emissions - they run well lean because they're designed to) and others are not happy about it. The forced-induction stuff (like the H2!) has to be approached with caution near full load.

It's virtually certain that the "canned" tunes will be quite conservative (i.e. rich). It seems that the stock calibration is very rich.
 

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... The forced-induction stuff (like the H2!) has to be approached with caution near full load.

It's virtually certain that the "canned" tunes will be quite conservative (i.e. rich). It seems that the stock calibration is very rich.
This reminds me of the oldest argument between pilots. Do you run your engine lean of peak exhaust gas temperatures; or rich. Both arguments sound convincing. It seems to boil down to running rich for high powere, high fuel consunmption and use excess unburned fuel to cool the cylinder and valves; or run lean of peak and avoid max tempertures, use more air to cool temps.

One thing we don't see in bike engines is cylinder and exhaust gas temps and air fuel gauges. If I was going to mess with an engine this complicated, those are things I'd want to see in real time, all the time. (aviation fuel is mainly 100LL) leaded
Dogfight: Running lean of peak - AOPA
 

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And the right answer - if you have air/fuel ratio controls that are sophisticated enough! - is to use lean cruise at part load whenever you can, and rich "protection" mode at or near full load whenever you have to!

Cylinder head temperature isn't useful information on a liquid cooled engine (the aircraft engines discussed above are air cooled).

It's a simple matter for electronic controls to build the speed/load region in which lean cruise is possible into the mapping and simply change over to rich protection mode when there is more load on the engine than can safely be done in lean cruise (or if the driver is requesting more torque than can be delivered in lean cruise). And in automotive applications, this is exactly what is done. They don't use lean cruise any more (because NOx emissions go through the roof) but the speed/load maps automatically select between 3-way-catalyst-friendly closed-loop stoichiometric operation most of the time, and rich mode near full load.

One of my other bikes has closed-loop EFI with 3-way catalyst, and I put my gauge on it and you can clearly see the changeover. It will run in closed-loop (14.6-14.7:1 showing on the gauge) up to remarkably high engine load.

My car actually has a wide-band oxygen sensor built in as original equipment, and it runs in closed loop all the time starting a few seconds after cold start, even at full load! (It has a secondary air injection system much like our bikes do, and it uses that system so that the engine itself can be a smidge rich at full load but the catalyst still sees the right mixture for low emissions)

And on a much more interesting note ... I just had a phone call from Fast Company and I am heading out on a little road trip to fetch my ECU.
 

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I have always read that lean makes more power but was a risky balancing act of heat and detonation. Running rich is safer but downside is more engine/oil contamination over time which can also cause damage.

With introduction of a knock sensor and more advanced ECU it is now IMO more a secondary safety margin to cover adding a hiflow filter or opening up the exhaust or getting bad batch of gas ...its just safer. and the cat works really good with plenty of excess fuel and air going into it making the carbon police happy.

With logging box and a WB sensor installed we should be able to dial in all the riding modes without too much fear adjusting for mods. The PCV and auto-tune can also accomplish this if you're careful and take your time.

A snip from Red's link (LOP=Lean of Power):
"Ask the people who make their living overhauling and maintaining piston aircraft engines (Bill Cunningham and Monty Barrett in Oklahoma are good places to start) and they will tell you that engines operated properly LOP are cleaner internally with less damaging crud in the case or residue in the cylinders.
 

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I agree totally. You can't run lean near peak power - but you should run lean at lesser engine loads whenever you can.

I have the Power Commander for my ZX10R set up in this manner. It took quite a bit of doing - running on the lean side is definitely fussier than running rich! - but with it done, fuel consumption is good, it doesn't dilute the engine oil with fuel, it doesn't turn the spark plugs black, driveability is very good.
 

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Back together. Removing and installing the ECU in this beast is an ignorant job that I hope not to repeat. But ... it is up and running. And on this day of freezing rain (which is why I'm home from work), I am not taking a test ride.
 

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Back together. Removing and installing the ECU in this beast is an ignorant job that I hope not to repeat. But ... it is up and running. And on this day of freezing rain (which is why I'm home from work), I am not taking a test ride.
Is it worse than pulling gen 4 ecu?
 
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