Do you know what a cam and head gasket are for?

10195 Views 35 Replies 12 Participants Last post by ben1000z, Feb 7, 2015

Cliff Secord

Discussion Starter · Feb 3, 2015 (Edited)

I've been perusing the wishful thinking going on in some of these threads and it's a little bit hard to believe some of you mechanics are that uneducated. This Guhl cat can flash the ECU all he wants, it's not going to change physics. Kawi put the identical blower and motor in both bikes except for the head gasket, cam and clutch. Does anyone here besides me know what those three things do or why they're different on the H2R?

The reason the H2 is limited to 10.5k and whatever map it's coming with is because the mechanicals will not endure revving to 14 grand. The cams will not have the lift and duration to pull enough fuel and air in, nor will it expel the gasses. Nor will the H2's head gasket endure the higher compression. What you guys are about to do is put the H2R's map on an engine with higher compression than the R! Sure, you may get a few big number runs, but I wouldn't plan on keeping your cylinder heads for long. I'd also stop using Gadson's bike as a comparison because his motor has no relation to the motor you'll be getting.

The other cheerleader you're getting your big HP pipe-dream hype from also doesn't seem to grasp the concept of gearing limits. Doesn't matter how much HP they make, the wheels only spin so fast at 14.5k RPM based on the drive gearing. The same guy who doesn't understand that simple math is excitedly (and erroneously) telling you about the big numbers Guhl is gonna make for you by copy/pasting the R's map onto your street bike. How many of you are willing to hose your warranty-voided motors figuring out why Kawi put a 25K premium on the R?

Unless Kawi is holding back those bikes to upgrade them internally, the first few dudes to flash their ECU are gonna find out real quick what it's like to be sitting on a grenade when it goes off. And don't forget that blower spinning 130,000rpm right underneath your junk.

You think a flash and a new spring in your BOV are gonna open the floodgates you're in for an expensive lesson in engineering. Speaking of which, why are you paying 30K for a bike that requires this much anticipatory re-engineering? I'd think for that kinda dough, it'd be done already?

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Greenguy

· #2 · Feb 3, 2015 (Edited)

H2R said:
I've been perusing the wishful thinking going on in some of these threads and it's a little bit hard to believe some of you mechanics are that uneducated. This Guhl cat can flash the ECU all he wants, it's not going to change physics. Kawi put the identical blower and motor in both bikes except for the head gasket, cam and clutch. Does anyone here besides me know what those three things do or why they're different on the H2R?

The reason the H2 is limited to 10.5k and whatever map it's coming with is because the mechanicals will not endure revving to 14 grand. The cams will not have the lift and duration to pull enough fuel and air in, nor will it expel the gasses. Nor will the H2's head gasket endure the higher compression. What you guys are about to do is put the H2R's map on an engine with higher compression than the R! Sure, you may get a few big number runs, but I wouldn't plan on keeping your cylinder heads for long. I'd also stop using Gadson's bike as a comparison because his motor has no relation to the motor you'll be getting.

The other cheerleader you're getting your big HP pipe-dream hype from also doesn't seem to grasp the concept of gearing limits. Doesn't matter how much HP they make, the wheels only spin so fast at 14.5k RPM based on the drive gearing. The same guy who doesn't understand that simple math is excitedly (and erroneously) telling you about the big numbers Guhl is gonna make for you by copy/pasting the R's map onto your street bike. How many of you are willing to hose your warranty-voided motors figuring out why Kawi put a 25K premium on the R?

Unless Kawi is holding back those bikes to upgrade them internally, the first few dudes to flash their ECU are gonna find out real quick what it's like to be sitting on a grenade when it goes off. And don't forget that blower spinning 130,000rpm right underneath your junk.

You think a flash and a new spring in your BOV are gonna open the floodgates you're in for an expensive lesson in engineering. Speaking of which, why are you paying 30K for a bike that requires this much anticipatory re-engineering? I'd think for that kinda dough, it'd be done already?

Have you personaly test the H2 engine to tell everybody what is the limit of this engine???

Or maybe you have all the data to do the theoretical calculation to come to that conclusion???

How do you know for sure that they have limit the H2 RPM to 10 500 for reliability purpose maybe it is just to keep it under 200HP

For sure it wont breath as easily as the H2R because of the higher compression ratio and the lower came lift but not necessarily tell that it wont handle it

The only one to know that right now is Kawi engineer.

As I can see you didn't study the BOV circuitry... Or you just dont understand how it work.

All you do is speculated that are based on presumption and that worth nothing to me.

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Reactions: 3

SilverbirdH2

· #3 · Feb 3, 2015 (Edited)

What's missing here...is the stated fact that Kawasaki has already said...."this motor can handle 1.5 to 2X's the stresses that it NOW produces.That's a another way of assuring owners that they will be able to increase output without worrying whether the motor will blow or not.NO ONE is gonna get their H2 engine to put out 197X2 unless they want to run it at it's limit for reliabilty.I don't think so anyway.Maybe a few.But generally...no.250HP on this bike is gonna be fine for most I would think.And that's well within the reliability window...I'm thinking.You HAVE to look at what Kawasaki said about this motor.It's right there.I don't think street riders are gonna run this bike at 14K everywhere they go.It's very fast.

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Cliff Secord

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 3, 2015

Greenguy said:
All you do is speculated that are based on presumption and that worth nothing to me.

As opposed to all the other speculation and presumption going on here? I've been building blown cars for the better part of 20 years (turbo and super). I know EXACTLY how the bike works and I've read the service manual cover to cover twice. What I've seen here is a lot of wishful thinking to cover disappointment with what's being delivered. There's a reason the R carries a 25k premium. You guys think you're just gonna flash an ECU and start making big numbers you may be right for a short time but how long is your head gasket gonna last? How long are you gonna run under boost with a lean condition and pressure build up from cams that don't have enough lift or duration before the motor grenades itself?

Stop attacking the messenger and start asking Kawasaki to deliver you what you paid for. Hating me ain't gonna change physics.

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Ryder

· #5 · Feb 3, 2015

Good points made, reliability is a nice thing to have and not pushing it past that point is key, no one wants to have their bike constantly being off the road being worked on.

ninja boy

· #6 · Feb 3, 2015

Why respond to the guy that supposedly cancelled his H2, and "supposedly" made it clear his last post was last month ???

Why waste your time.... It's all his usual nonsense.

Doom and Gloom = Total Depression !!!!

Reactions: 2

garth285

· #7 · Feb 3, 2015

What a joke this guy is...... does he even have a bike now?

Reactions: 2

ninja boy

· #8 · Feb 3, 2015

garth285 said:
What a joke this guy is...... does he even have a bike now?

I don't think a Vespa counts as a superbike garth.

He must feel terrible losing his $2500 or $5000 deposit when he
cancelled his H2.....yeah, I don't think it was even ordered....lol

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garth285

· #9 · Feb 3, 2015

Yup I highly doubt he ordered one, and if so I doubt he cancelled it.

I can claim to be a supercharger builder to ya know!

I rebuilt a diesel when I was 14 and I'm 30 now so 16 years top flight security engine builder here talking.

H2R - you come off like a huge ass on here, I can guarantee you, you will be sad you didnt buy one so you can remove the restrictions.

As far as what Guhl says, you do not understand how much R&D time is going in to the H2 and H2R ECU to define all 800 yes 800 maps inside the ECU.

If you even ride anything now, close the throttle 50% and see how much power it makes up top.

I see a banning again lol.

Just calm down man!

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Reactions: 2

GoFaster

· #10 · Feb 3, 2015

The engine is not "limited" i.e. hard rev limiter, at 10,500 rpm. IF this were true, that would have the effect of hard-limiting the top speed to about 250 km/h, which is certainly not going to happen.

The throttles and boost pressure are modulated so that it does not make more than the politically-correct amount of power above that RPM. It will rev higher than 10,500 rpm, it just will make (close to) the same politically-correct amount of power above that RPM.

It's quite possible that the H2 will have more conservative cam timing - if that's the case, it should level out the torque curve, and for a street bike, that would be a good thing, even if it did cost a bit of top-end power.

299 km/h with the H2 gearing = about 12,600 rpm in 6th gear.

Fireball36

· #11 · Feb 3, 2015

Whether he has a bike or not - I couldn't care less, but by his actions it really looks like he's just here to cause a ruckus. I don't know who 'he' is but his dialog is consistent with a 15 year old living in his Mom's basement.

It's a shame that guys like this get jollys spoiling everyone elses fun.

For me - I can hardly wait for my bike to arrive, hopefully the day after the roads are all dry from the winter melt. I could, however, use a full throttle twist right now.

Greg

Reactions: 4

Cliff Secord

Discussion Starter · #12 · Feb 3, 2015

garth285 said:
What a joke this guy is...... does he even have a bike now?

This is typical. You have no articulable argument so you resort to name calling. Hey Garth, why don't you tell us again about the top speed of the stock H2 and how you've come to your figures. Show everyone how smart you are.

Cliff Secord

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 3, 2015

GoFaster said:
The engine is not "limited" i.e. hard rev limiter, at 10,500 rpm. IF this were true, that would have the effect of hard-limiting the top speed to about 250 km/h, which is certainly not going to happen.

The throttles and boost pressure are modulated so that it does not make more than the politically-correct amount of power above that RPM. It will rev higher than 10,500 rpm, it just will make (close to) the same politically-correct amount of power above that RPM.

It's quite possible that the H2 will have more conservative cam timing - if that's the case, it should level out the torque curve, and for a street bike, that would be a good thing, even if it did cost a bit of top-end power.

299 km/h with the H2 gearing = about 12,600 rpm in 6th gear.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0

garth285

· #14 · Feb 3, 2015

What point would you like to argue about? What fact about ecu restrictions would you like to argue about? Quit being a cry baby about how you think it's impossible to make more power. I don't get what your trying to prove?

On that note your empty speculations have nothing to prove to us.

Cliff Secord

Discussion Starter · #15 · Feb 3, 2015

garth285 said:
On that note your empty speculations have nothing to prove to us.

That's rich coming from the king of empty speculation! Hey, aren't you also the guy committing fraud by selling Kawasaki's intellectual property to forum members? I recall paying you $40 for a copy of the service manual Kawasaki charges $110 for. Thanks for the 5 finger discount!

And while you're at it you might climb down from your high horse.

garth285

· #16 · Feb 3, 2015

What empty speculation do you accuse me of? I've only posted either facts about the bike and ecu or personal opinions.

Bottom line your temperamental attitude towards the bike or your conspiracy theory that kawi is defrauding people is ridiculous.

SilverbirdH2

· #17 · Feb 4, 2015 (Edited)

"I've read the service manual cover to cover twice"...okay...so where did you get this service manual?IF I might ask.I only know of ONE guy that has offered it...he's here...if you got it from him..he won't mind you saying so....the offer is here clearly...so he's NOT trying to hide it.I got one.and big thanks to him.

As an aside..I was gonna get one from Kawasaki...last Saturday they told me...NO SERVICE MANUALS YET.So you didn't get it from Kawasaki.You're making these statements...and I'm not 'out to get you'...but add some validity to what you're saying...that's all.Not too much to ask.

Frio

· #18 · Feb 4, 2015

SilverbirdH2 said:
As an aside..I was gonna get one from Kawasaki...last Saturday they told me...NO SERVICE MANUALS YET.

Er... that might be inaccurate...

This is mine.

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Reactions: 3

ninja boy

· #19 · Feb 4, 2015

Nice !!!!

SilverbirdH2

· #20 · Feb 4, 2015

Yup...could be inaccurate...it's possible she never called...maybe i should make a call myself...I can do that.See what the Corporate Office says.

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