[Fretka]

We have been talking about what other bikes the H-2 might compare with.

Let me toss in a thought. The only tangible benefit of the H-2 will be the ability of Kawaski to tune the engine to deliver a VERY broad torque spread (say from 3K rpm and up.) this is what makes the H-2 such a breakthrough motor.

Not total horsepower numbers. Not what some think that by "tuning" will get them even more horsepower up at 12K rpm. HP at 12K rpm is mostly pointless UNLESS all you do is drag race your bike. Even more pointless is top speed IMO.

So... you have a bike that will be long gone before the other entries in the sportbike market hit their high rev sweet spot.

This is the only difference between the H-2 and the others, BUT, what a killer difference this is! How many of you have honestly spent any time on a boosted bike? The acceleration can be vicious and overwhelming but Holy **** what a trip!

The bike that has a chance at comparing to the H-2 might be the Pani as Duc has given the motor an extra 100 cc's but left the intake tract alone which gives the Pani more midrange punch. Better but not like the H-2!

The advantage the Pani has is lower weight which will help to offset the extra power the H-2 possess.
Pricing about the same between the two.

Please...... don't fool yourselves by judging the H-2 by total HP alone, it's a bike with much more than that to offer.

Fretka

 

[Clover]

But there must be more competitors than just the Ducati Panigale. What about something like the CBR1000rr?

 

[Bazza]

But there must be more competitors than just the Ducati Panigale. What about something like the CBR1000rr?

not in terms of torque. Its the age old gutless I4 (compared to V's that is), Fretka outlines it in his post, peak outputs are reached much higher in the rev band...

 

[Fretka]

Lets talk about engine output and power characteristics as that seems to be popular at this point.
All we can know about this subject is to look at honest dyno traces, past history of motors that remain unchanged and engine architecture and internal design.

The Honda seems to be unchanged AFAIK, so we can assume it will still have it's smaller overall HP numbers but with a decent midrange (rideability). A good all around motor, but nothing really new.

The R-1 will feature the same motor but apparently producing greater top-end hp numbers. To get this higher output without resorting to exotic tech the motor will spin faster and/or loose midrange (again rideability) to provide this 200 hp at the top of it's rev range.


Remember that without new tech you can't have both better midrange and more hp. Take from Peter to pay Paul so to speak.

A really good example of this is the Duc GP bike, it has always made more outright hp than the others but is almost unrideable. So what else do we have that's new?

Suzuki has bold new graphics.

And lastly..... someone will say here "what about Yamaha's flat crank timing".

We can go into this in another post but suffice to say this is a marketing ploy and has no real use on the street, only Moto GP.
Gotta eat lunch....

Fretka

 

[Fretka]

Non-boosted motors such as the Pani,BMW 1000RR,R-1 etc..are restricted by the laws of physics involving air-flow through the combustion chamber, port angles, diameters, surface finish, valve size and timing/lift etc. as we know.

Modern engines operating at 2 hp/ liter have just about optimized engine tech and architecture with **** little left on the table (one tech that we have yet to see in a sportbike is variable valve timing). The result is that if the displacement is to remain at 1 liter and we cannot change to higher compression ratios then the only way left to designers is to spin the engine faster. This is what (IMO) hurts rideability.

The H-2 has no such constraints and can easily make power both top ,mid and grunt without resorting to all the constraints of the other liter bikes.

So... we have a motor now that can make far too much power right from idle to the moon.
Kaw cannot offer the public an unrestricted motor so they will actually "throw away" torque to give us a smooth, reasonably safe ride.

The way they will do this is by electronics/fly-by-wire programming.
What we don't know yet is how, where, when will Kaw program the bike for power production.

Hopefully it will be seamless coming onto boost early and no hiccups as the boost controller cuts in and also when the impeller shifts into it's high rpm mode. How will throttle response be? How much total torque at any given time?

First year might be a little rough around the edges programming wise and then again Kaw knows this stuff well and it could be spot-on.

Can't wait to see.

 

[SilverbirdH2]

Nice explanation....thanks...



"First year might be a little rough around the edges programming wise "...well...in my experiences with Kawasaki Flagship Motorcycles...at least with mine...never had any issues in any way.They all worked flawlessly.I can't see this bird being any different...just my opinion.The last thing they'd want is complaints on a NEW model as tricked out as this one is.

Over the course of the build-up and release of this bike...a lot of guys have talked about this going wrong,this can't be,this won't do this or that...all from guys who've not ridden it....won't get one...and all that.I fully believe Kawasaki has actually had this design(working)for quite some time.None of the tech in this thing is happenstance.It wasn't just 'thrown together' at the last minute and put out there.I'm expecting legendary Kawasaki performance and legendary Kawasaki quality.They did this machine right from the get go....there's no guesswork with this bike....I think Ricky is finding that out

I fully expect it to be a long term keeper...they take a lot of pride in their machines and their knowledge.That rivermark means a **** of a lot to those guys in KHI.

 

[Ryder]

Great way to put it, so far it sure seems to have a lot of legendary parts of the brand embedded within it, it's a great example of what the brand can do these days, one i'm glad to have finally seen.

 

[Fretka]

I agree with your statements but when I refer to "rough around the edges" I mean things like slightly abrupt throttle response, less than perfect fueling in the emissions regulation rpm range.

Interesting on that last, if you listen very closely to the vids where the R bike is running around the track you can hear (in the first video) the bike missing as it pulls way at about 3500 rpm and then cleans up. In other vids you can see that the street version sounds a little rough in that same rev range.

These vids are of pre-prod bikes so we can assume that the fueling maps are becoming more refined as we go.

 

[Clover]

I think that I would understand the difference best by actually getting a chance to ride the H2. Saying something on paper just doesn't give the same understanding as experiencing it for yourself.

 

[Bazza]

I think that I would understand the difference best by actually getting a chance to ride the H2. Saying something on paper just doesn't give the same understanding as experiencing it for yourself.

Yes but without knowing what your feeling/seeing/hearing how will you know what your feeling/seeing/hearing.

Thats the value of 'words on paper'....

 

[SilverbirdH2]

It's possible that 'miss' or whatever it is(was)is the KTRC kicking in.We don't really know what that guy had her set on...I can take a guess looking at the run...Kawasaki probably told him..."just do what we say here".....I DOUBT he had all the electronic stops pulled...seeing how one crash would be pretty poor PR for a bike supposed to be "Beyond Belief"...At the point of that Suzuka Trial and all...most likely NO ONE knew exactly what this bike was gonna really do...aside from hauling assNot to mention the Launch control and all....you see him loft several times...one of em didn't appear to be totally plannedLOL!!!That's what it looked like to me anyway.No Way was that bike even NEAR it's real capabilities at Suzuka.



"These vids are of pre-prod bikes so we can assume that the fueling maps are becoming more refined as we go"...I would agree with most of that...BUT....I don't believe they would(will)have any 'problems' fueling this bike correctly(from the first bikes...whether H2R's or H2's)....I mean...like having it stutter or something.I think that stutter was the electronics doing what they're supposed to do for how they MAY have been set....


Bazza Said..."Yes but without knowing what your feeling/seeing/hearing how will you know what your feeling/seeing/hearing"....exactly.And we DON'T know what the bike was set to for that Demo.I've ridden my 14R with the Ktrc on 1,or even 2 once or twice...it can seem like it's having a fueling problem...depending... but it isn't.It's Ktrc working.And not just 'off the line' either.I have a brilliant flash in my 14R...there are NO fueling issues with it at all...so that Ktrc will intercede at certain times...I normally ride with it off because of that.

The 14R has 3 KTRC settings(as ya'll know)...the H2....9.That's a lot of parameters going on....probably EASILY reached with this birdI would imagine THIS baby can spin the rear at almost any point in the RPM range...any speed...any gear.Gonna be SWEET!!!LOL!

 

[SilverbirdH2]

I'm totally stoked that us who've taken the next step to own one of these are gonna actually be able to R&D these awesome bikes.These aren't the Panagales...or R1's..or anything else out there...these are totally unique and different bikes...gonna be a blast getting to know em...big thumbs up to all...it's gonna be a GREAT new year

 

[Fretka]

Ya know SilverBird you could actually be exactly right!

If anyone feels like it look up the first track video of the R and as it zooms off you can hear it missing for just a second before they cut to a different scene. I assumed it was a fueling issue but you could be right on the money, it could be that the ECU saw the rear spinning-up and pulled one cylinder momentarily.

I like your answer better! This guy riding was Toye or someone good and even he had trouble managing the power so anyone on this board (with due respect) saying that they will turn off the electronic safety-nannies is just fooling themselves.

 

[NinJAHfu]

I'm totally stoked that us who've taken the next step to own one of these are gonna actually be able to R&D these awesome bikes.These aren't the Panagales...or R1's..or anything else out there...these are totally unique and different bikes...gonna be a blast getting to know em...big thumbs up to all...it's gonna be a GREAT new year

Seeing how these bike perform it the hands of owners is what interests me, seeing what issues may come out, how going about dealing with those issues go, etc.

Hopefully it doesn't turn out being a disaster, I have faith in Kawi.

 

[ninja boy]

After seeing the mods Gadson has already done to his, it's going to be cool to
see all the mods that are going to evolve over time.

I agree, these bikes are special and unique...

 

[NinJAHfu]

That it will.
Finally we're experiencing one of the more exciting times of Kawi bike production

 

[edinlr]

No real direct competition for the H2, the Aprilia or BMW will probably smoke it on a race track. With some traction work, it might compete with the Busa or ZX14 at the drag strip.
My guess is most 600's will out run it on twisty streets. The bike however, should be way cool on bike nights though, as a limited production bike, it will always stick out. Once we get familiar with it's handling, 1/4 mile and top speed, then it will actually earn some respect.

 

[Nessuno]

No real direct competition for the H2, the Aprilia or BMW will probably smoke it on a race track. With some traction work, it might compete with the Busa or ZX14 at the drag strip.
My guess is most 600's will out run it on twisty streets. The bike however, should be way cool on bike nights though, as a limited production bike, it will always stick out. Once we get familiar with it's handling, 1/4 mile and top speed, then it will actually earn some respect.

I dunno man, H2 is still relatively compact wheelbase wise, yea its heavier so theres a bit more effort lugging it side to side, but that shouldn't be a problem for a good fit rider.

Wheelbase

H2: 1,455 mm
S1K: 1,432 mm
10R: 1,424 mm

 

[Fretka]

With this kind of torque just steer it with the throttle.

 

[Bazza]

With this kind of torque just steer it with the throttle.