Good stuff there...I did read that article...but your point there...I somehow missed that he was running the H2 motor.I thought he did have the cams and all....this is REALLY good news
Did anyone read this interview with Gadson full of numbers?
On The Record: Rickey Gadson- Project Kawasaki Ninja H2 Hybrid Drag Bike
He's talking about his H2 - NOT the H2R. He's racing 'Real Street' so it has to be a production bike. His 'hybrid' is carbon wings instead of mirrors and the H2R can.
I copy/pasted in case you just want the high points. I didn't see anywhere in the article anything about a cam swap, head gasket or adding a 10th clutch plate. I would think that if he'd done those things he'd have gotten higher numbers.
______________________
When I first drag-tested the H2, I really felt like an amateur. It was pissing me off. The bike was so powerful it intimidated me.
At this point, I’ve only been able to do bolt-on modifications and enough modifications to make this bike unique and one of a kind.
"It makes 292 horsepower to the rear wheel on pump gas. KHI is very smart. They are never going to run anything on the edge. When we checked the air-fuel ratio, it was 11.3 to 11.4. That’s how rich they had it. They had to make sure it’s safe enough for anybody who gets their hands on it to not blow it up. We knew from racing my turbo bike that we can lean it out quite a bit more than that. So we took the air-fuel ratio to about 12.2 and picked up 30 horsepower. With the leaner mixture and improved airflow, we went from 269 horsepower to 292. If you equate that to crankshaft horsepower, that would be around 320 horsepower."
To put this in perspective, my race bike is a turbocharged ZX-14R with close to 500 horsepower. My best-ever time to half-track on that bike is 5.13. The H2 does it in 5:31. That’s the only difference between the H2 and the bike I’ve developed and raced for the last several years? Of course, in the second half of the track, the 500 horsepower takes over. But the H2 still remains within a half-second of the national record.
People keep commenting about how heavy the H2 is. They’re appalled that it’s listed as 530 lb. I will say this: I never believed the bike was that heavy, so I pulled it onto a scale. In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are), my bike weighed 475 lb. stock, with a gallon of gas. Then, at our December test with the extended swingarm and carbon rear wheel, the bike weighed only 460 lb. I weighed my ZX-14R school bike that same day, set up the same way and with a gallon of fuel. It weighed 530 lb. Sure, if you compare the H2 to a liter bike, it’s heavy. But it also has a steel frame, a supercharger, and what looks like the heaviest exhaust I’ve ever seen on a production bike.
He's talking about his H2 - NOT the H2R. He's racing 'Real Street' so it has to be a production bike. His 'hybrid' is carbon wings instead of mirrors and the H2R can.
I copy/pasted in case you just want the high points. I didn't see anywhere in the article anything about a cam swap, head gasket or adding a 10th clutch plate. I would think that if he'd done those things he'd have gotten higher numbers.
______________________
When I first drag-tested the H2, I really felt like an amateur. It was pissing me off. The bike was so powerful it intimidated me.
At this point, I’ve only been able to do bolt-on modifications and enough modifications to make this bike unique and one of a kind.
"It makes 292 horsepower to the rear wheel on pump gas. KHI is very smart. They are never going to run anything on the edge. When we checked the air-fuel ratio, it was 11.3 to 11.4. That’s how rich they had it. They had to make sure it’s safe enough for anybody who gets their hands on it to not blow it up. We knew from racing my turbo bike that we can lean it out quite a bit more than that. So we took the air-fuel ratio to about 12.2 and picked up 30 horsepower. With the leaner mixture and improved airflow, we went from 269 horsepower to 292. If you equate that to crankshaft horsepower, that would be around 320 horsepower."
To put this in perspective, my race bike is a turbocharged ZX-14R with close to 500 horsepower. My best-ever time to half-track on that bike is 5.13. The H2 does it in 5:31. That’s the only difference between the H2 and the bike I’ve developed and raced for the last several years? Of course, in the second half of the track, the 500 horsepower takes over. But the H2 still remains within a half-second of the national record.
People keep commenting about how heavy the H2 is. They’re appalled that it’s listed as 530 lb. I will say this: I never believed the bike was that heavy, so I pulled it onto a scale. In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are), my bike weighed 475 lb. stock, with a gallon of gas. Then, at our December test with the extended swingarm and carbon rear wheel, the bike weighed only 460 lb. I weighed my ZX-14R school bike that same day, set up the same way and with a gallon of fuel. It weighed 530 lb. Sure, if you compare the H2 to a liter bike, it’s heavy. But it also has a steel frame, a supercharger, and what looks like the heaviest exhaust I’ve ever seen on a production bike.
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Remember that it made 269 with the ecu specs of a R. Like you said it had regular cam and clutch. In order for anyone to change af to gain that much power daily riding would be a risk to the bike. He ran it on the edge of being lean, ok for strip not great for track or street.
When the H2s power was released I made a comment about hoe the power peaks at 11k rpm and so does my 10r.. Well once you flash my 10 the peak is at around 14k.. And on the h2 it doesn't tach out till 14ish too. So my guess is this 3k rpm that has been electronically limited, they probly force the secondary throttle butterflies shut early like the noise package did on the 10r. So in other words that 269 was a h2 with exhaust, no cat, h2r ecu map which like I said above wshould have allowed the bike to make power till redline instead of dropping off like it does.the one thing I'm not sure of is whether the boost was increased. I'm guessing it was but with all the dead space at upper revs it hard to tell. My guess is it is the extra boost. I think that the timed maintainence schedule with the R is due to the more aggressive less concervative af mixture (air fuel mix) this would make it very unreliable as a street bike. It is odd that he has pretty much reached the Rs power without the cam. Interesting. I think the R will have 300rwhp at least if he gets 292 without it cammed
When the H2s power was released I made a comment about hoe the power peaks at 11k rpm and so does my 10r.. Well once you flash my 10 the peak is at around 14k.. And on the h2 it doesn't tach out till 14ish too. So my guess is this 3k rpm that has been electronically limited, they probly force the secondary throttle butterflies shut early like the noise package did on the 10r. So in other words that 269 was a h2 with exhaust, no cat, h2r ecu map which like I said above wshould have allowed the bike to make power till redline instead of dropping off like it does.the one thing I'm not sure of is whether the boost was increased. I'm guessing it was but with all the dead space at upper revs it hard to tell. My guess is it is the extra boost. I think that the timed maintainence schedule with the R is due to the more aggressive less concervative af mixture (air fuel mix) this would make it very unreliable as a street bike. It is odd that he has pretty much reached the Rs power without the cam. Interesting. I think the R will have 300rwhp at least if he gets 292 without it cammed
I'm not leaning the mixture out that far but I will gladly free up the air box and unplug the exhaust. Sounds like even in the mid-200's it's a real fistfight. Glorious.
According to the Cycle World article, Rickey Gadson's stated, " In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are), my bike weighed 475 lb. stock, with a gallon of gas."On The Record: Rickey Gadson- Project Kawasaki Ninja H2 Hybrid Drag Bike
People keep commenting about how heavy the H2 is. They’re appalled that it’s listed as 530 lb. I will say this: I never believed the bike was that heavy, so I pulled it onto a scale. In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are), my bike weighed 475 lb. stock, with a gallon of gas. Then, at our December test with the extended swingarm and carbon rear wheel, the bike weighed only 460 lb.
As much as I would really, really like to believe this statement is valid, I don't.
When his H2 weighed in at 475 lb., the bike was NOT "In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are)..."
In the article, Rickey Gadson makes no mention whatsoever that the stock exhaust system on his H2 (i.e., the mega exhaust that will be installed on our street H2s) had been changed to that of the H2R.
At the beginning of the video, Rickey Gadson’s Custom Ninja H2 Hybrid: The Only One Of Its Kind, his H2, reportedly "In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are)", clearly is running the H2R exhaust system.
In the video, Rickey Gadson's Kawasaki Ninja H2 vs ZX14R controversial weight comparison, which verifies his statement "Then, at our December test with the extended swingarm and carbon rear wheel, the bike weighed only 460 lb.", his H2 is also clearly running the H2R exhaust system.
The change to the extended swingarm and carbon rear wheel resulted in the 15 lb weight reduction from 475 lb to 460 lb. His H2 was running the H2R exhaust system at both weigh in's.
Therefore, Kawasaki's originally stated Curb Mass (at 2015 NINJA H2? Ninja H2?R / H2? Motorcycle by Kawasaki) for the H2 of 524.8 lb likely and unfortunately is accurate.
So did Rickey Gadson have brain fog not to mention that the exhaust system on his stock H2 had been changed, or what?
Gosh, I also really, really would like to get the H2R exhaust system for my H2 without having to own the H2R. :crying:
I don't know that he had to mention the exhaust as it was pretty obvious. Unless there's no aftermarket other than Akro (no thanks, that thing is hideous) I can't imagine anyone leaving the stock pipe on it.
I also dk that it's that controversial. The point is you yoink a couple superfluous pieces you're down where you should be. And even if that weren't the case, we're only talking 30-50 pounds which depending on the rider could be the natural difference in the size of your ass.
With a bike that scares Ricky Gadson, a little extra weight helping keep it planted is probably a good thing. That said, it seems each of these little roadblocks is a gatekeeper put in place by kawasaki to weed out the guys who shouldn't have 269HP. I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with all the critics. Wouldn't be any fun if it was easy.
I also dk that it's that controversial. The point is you yoink a couple superfluous pieces you're down where you should be. And even if that weren't the case, we're only talking 30-50 pounds which depending on the rider could be the natural difference in the size of your ass.
With a bike that scares Ricky Gadson, a little extra weight helping keep it planted is probably a good thing. That said, it seems each of these little roadblocks is a gatekeeper put in place by kawasaki to weed out the guys who shouldn't have 269HP. I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with all the critics. Wouldn't be any fun if it was easy.
The point is that Rickey Gadson's statement, "In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are), my bike weighed 475 lb. stock, with a gallon of gas." is FALSE!I don't know that he had to mention the exhaust as it was pretty obvious.
I for one prefer that recognized "experts" provide accurate and reliable information. :nerd:
I think we're splitting hairs. Point is; no cam, no gasket, no compression change, no extra clutches, no carbon bodywork. When I used to drag race for a living when arranging a race 'stock' meant no internal work and no gearing. Basically you didn't touch anything I couldn't see with a flashlight. Exhaust, under tails, mirrors and other such inconsequential things were a given (that they'd be modded or gone) and not worth mentioning. Maybe the problem here, and not to start an argument, is that RG is using racer values over those of the guy who memorizes the brochure.The point is that Rickey Gadson's statement, "In completely stock trim (no carbon, except where the mirrors and wings are), my bike weighed 475 lb. stock, with a gallon of gas." is FALSE!
I agree he could have been more specific, but I understand what he's saying and it's good. Real good.
What the heck's so hard to understand about his weight findings?He weighed his FACTORY H2 Motorcycle stock with a gallon of fuel...475.....30 days later...he reweighed it(after his mods)...it came in at 460...sheesh...he didn't lie about anything.Honestly...in the real world...I'm with H2R...who the heck wants a 200+ hp bike like this one...and have it skip and slip all over the road?I don't.524 factory weight is fine with me...If he's intimidated by the Factory H2....that otta say something right there.
If it IS below the factory specs...I'm good with that as well.
If he said he felt like an amateur....think what it's gonna feel like for someone like me...Joe A.
He's most definitely targeting Drag guys in his videos...I doubt too many street owners will be running like he is....
"In completely stock trim".... the one being rolled off the trailer is NOT the original bike he started with....the one he started with was his factory H2....heck...IDK...524,460?with a bike like this...on the street...it isn't gonna really gonna matter...I prefer some weight on there...he's going in a straight line...big difference.Who the heck's gonna keep up with us anyway?Even at 524.
If it IS below the factory specs...I'm good with that as well.
If he said he felt like an amateur....think what it's gonna feel like for someone like me...Joe A.
He's most definitely targeting Drag guys in his videos...I doubt too many street owners will be running like he is....
"In completely stock trim".... the one being rolled off the trailer is NOT the original bike he started with....the one he started with was his factory H2....heck...IDK...524,460?with a bike like this...on the street...it isn't gonna really gonna matter...I prefer some weight on there...he's going in a straight line...big difference.Who the heck's gonna keep up with us anyway?Even at 524.
I'm pretty sure the "H2" that he is talking about is the one that Kawasaki gave him to work with ... complete with the wings instead of mirrors and complete with H2R exhaust. The other stuff (camshafts, clutch, headgasket, ECU, etc) won't make a difference to the weight one way or the other.
The mirrors are insignificant, so what it means is simply that the stock exhaust system on the regular H2 that the rest of us will get, weighs a ton (or more specifically, about 49 lbs more than the H2R unmuffled exhaust).
Let's not fault Rickey Gadson too much for not being absolutely precise with every word. For one, I'm glad that he's out there doing some development work on these.
The mirrors are insignificant, so what it means is simply that the stock exhaust system on the regular H2 that the rest of us will get, weighs a ton (or more specifically, about 49 lbs more than the H2R unmuffled exhaust).
Let's not fault Rickey Gadson too much for not being absolutely precise with every word. For one, I'm glad that he's out there doing some development work on these.
"Let's not fault Rickey Gadson too much for not being absolutely precise with every word. For one, I'm glad that he's out there doing some development work on these"..totally agree..
You know..I 'think' most guys right now think this bike...(the ones being prepared for release to the customers)is finalized in it's performance settings.I don't think this way...I truly think that all this testing by Ricky is going straight into Kawasaki...kind of 'guiding' them if you will on what us guys want...we want numbers...power...all that.NONE of the now being built bikes are actually 'done'..IMO.They can easily make adjustments to these bikes just before they start shipping.I believe that.And someone mentioned a while back here...they MIGHT be presenting the HP numbers and such BELOW their actual numbers for prudence sake.You can bet lawmakers and all are looking closely at this new bike...it WILL be on public roads very soon....the 'gentleman's agreement' is gone...
You know..I 'think' most guys right now think this bike...(the ones being prepared for release to the customers)is finalized in it's performance settings.I don't think this way...I truly think that all this testing by Ricky is going straight into Kawasaki...kind of 'guiding' them if you will on what us guys want...we want numbers...power...all that.NONE of the now being built bikes are actually 'done'..IMO.They can easily make adjustments to these bikes just before they start shipping.I believe that.And someone mentioned a while back here...they MIGHT be presenting the HP numbers and such BELOW their actual numbers for prudence sake.You can bet lawmakers and all are looking closely at this new bike...it WILL be on public roads very soon....the 'gentleman's agreement' is gone...
^ somehow I doubt that; the bike will ship with a "safe" calibration and you can bet your bottom dollar that it's already done. The R&D will show up as an aftermarket reflash. This way, Kawasaki can claim to the regulators and insurance companies that they did whatever they were supposed to for emissions and "gentleman's agreement" compliance, we'll pay (hopefully) a couple hundred bucks to get it unleashed, and if God forbid anything ever happens, Kawasaki can investigate the contents of the ECU and say "wasn't us" ...
God bless Kawasaki for even allowing us to be having this conversation right now.
Rickey Gadson is an advertising and promotion machine for Big K. He does a great job at it also. Who better to promote the baddest bike ever made, but the baddest drag racer in motorcycles. His numbers, and stats are going to be pretty accurate.
I would love to see him get on this forum...
I would love to see him get on this forum...
Guess we'll have to join 'facebook' if we want to talk to him
I'm just thinking out loud with some of my posts about what I think with this bike.I do think it most likely IS setup as it's gonna be or whatever right now.Some of my 'ideas' I should probably keep to myself...
I'm just thinking out loud with some of my posts about what I think with this bike.I do think it most likely IS setup as it's gonna be or whatever right now.Some of my 'ideas' I should probably keep to myself...
Facebook. Hilarious. People still participate in that cult?Guess we'll have to join 'facebook' if we want to talk to him
I'm just thinking out loud with some of my posts about what I think with this bike.I do think it most likely IS setup as it's gonna be or whatever right now.Some of my 'ideas' I should probably keep to myself...
I guess I'm a troll then...surfing his site.Ah...what the heck...
Watching this Leno thing again everyone picked on. He's talking to the rep, who clearly knows the numbers but isn't allowed to say. Surely he talked to Leno before the video and gave him the legit figures. Leno says 'well over 200HP'. The rep nods and says something about intense acceleration. Leno talks about weight. Rep says in the range of modern 1000cc sport bikes, Leno says 460-470, Rep nods. Rep describes it's place in the market as a 1K sportbike class with 'intense acceleration'. Which makes sense since they didn't use the 1400 platform.
Pick on Leno all you want, but he's using Ricky Gadsons numbers 2 months ago and the Kawasaki rep isn't correcting him. Just sayin'. Sounds alot like they set out to build a supercharged 10R basically.
It's kinda fun to watch that video again knowing what you know now. Leno keeps letting the cat out of the bag. "You can go faster than a P1 or LaFerrari for less than 30K". They hadn't released the price yet. There's some gold in that vid.
The wings are bolt on in place of mirrors. That giant exhaust hangar bracket comes off the street version. (Actually upon closer inspection it appears the H2R has the H2's exact same frame.)
It also occurred to me watching this why this is going to be one year only - it's going to be banned. That fiasco in 2000 that spawned the gentlemen's agreement where the Hayabusa was crowned king undeservedly. That had to sting. IDK that after this Suzuki is going to get the chance to follow up.
Pick on Leno all you want, but he's using Ricky Gadsons numbers 2 months ago and the Kawasaki rep isn't correcting him. Just sayin'. Sounds alot like they set out to build a supercharged 10R basically.
It's kinda fun to watch that video again knowing what you know now. Leno keeps letting the cat out of the bag. "You can go faster than a P1 or LaFerrari for less than 30K". They hadn't released the price yet. There's some gold in that vid.
The wings are bolt on in place of mirrors. That giant exhaust hangar bracket comes off the street version. (Actually upon closer inspection it appears the H2R has the H2's exact same frame.)
It also occurred to me watching this why this is going to be one year only - it's going to be banned. That fiasco in 2000 that spawned the gentlemen's agreement where the Hayabusa was crowned king undeservedly. That had to sting. IDK that after this Suzuki is going to get the chance to follow up.
I watched that same vid several times myself when it first came out...and got the same ideas you have.While most guys were finding fault in it...about the bike and it's 'supposed' specs...about how the rep was like...not really saying too much about the numbers...nope...he knew...discerning minds were taking it all in...like usWe're all in....
"it's going to be banned."...well...I think that may be a bit drastic...and probably won't happen...but...there sure won't be multitudes out there on the road...that's for sure...the ones who DO have this bike are gonna be very happy.And a tad more careful I'd imagine.
We're all in...."it's going to be banned."...well...I think that may be a bit drastic...and probably won't happen...but...there sure won't be multitudes out there on the road...that's for sure...the ones who DO have this bike are gonna be very happy.And a tad more careful I'd imagine.
Yeah, I'm kinda torn. Normally when I ride I do so with the expectation that if I break it, I can fix it easy enough. This thing not so much. How exactly do I get my tank re-electromatically silver plated if I ding it? What happens I accidentally drag a chuck over the tail when stepping aboard? Say it sinks into the blacktop and tips over. What does a mirror with a turn signal in it from a bike they made less than a hundred of cost? There will be no glut of inexpensive spares littering eBay. I bought a replacement pillion cover for my 12R that had a tiny chip in it - $180. What's a set of fairings gonna cost for something like the H2??? There is no shop on earth, literally, that can fix the body work on this if it gets hosed.
It'd be nice if Kwak kept the prices down on spares so we weren't so apprehensive about hitting that last 10% of capability. Or better yet, withheld a few new bikes for the fist 10 guys or so who wad theirs up and want to use the insurance money to buy another one. I got it - how about an exchange program? I'll mail you my mangled fairings for new ones at cost.
What I'd really like to know is if I can wrap it. Normally you don't wax a car until the paint's cured for at least 2 months. Do I have to wait before I put a protective coating on this? Can I even do that? Can I use the 3M clear spray protective coating? If it were paint and it caused a problem I could buff it out. WTH can I do to this? Hopefully it's got a normal top coat of automotive clear. If so, I can totally work with that. If not - shudder.
I seriously do think it'll prompt another gentlemen's agreement/ban. That's why all the reps have that cat who ate the canary grin and won't say anything. They look totally guilty.
It'd be nice if Kwak kept the prices down on spares so we weren't so apprehensive about hitting that last 10% of capability. Or better yet, withheld a few new bikes for the fist 10 guys or so who wad theirs up and want to use the insurance money to buy another one. I got it - how about an exchange program? I'll mail you my mangled fairings for new ones at cost.
What I'd really like to know is if I can wrap it. Normally you don't wax a car until the paint's cured for at least 2 months. Do I have to wait before I put a protective coating on this? Can I even do that? Can I use the 3M clear spray protective coating? If it were paint and it caused a problem I could buff it out. WTH can I do to this? Hopefully it's got a normal top coat of automotive clear. If so, I can totally work with that. If not - shudder.
I seriously do think it'll prompt another gentlemen's agreement/ban. That's why all the reps have that cat who ate the canary grin and won't say anything. They look totally guilty.
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