Kawasaki H2R 200-Mph Review - Page 2 - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
 18Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 20 Old 05-22-2016, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Turbo329's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Secord View Post
My bike is H2R #10 , was dyno'd before they put it in the box and it makes 321.1 SAE. Right now. No waiting. That's why I bought it. Having ridden it almost 600 miles, that's not an error. Anything lower than KTRC 2- makes the bike just about useless. After 10K RPM the thing goes into f'ing warp drive all the way to 15K. My H2, while amazing, has absolutely NOTHING on the H2R. Again, why I bought it. Several other tests have shown 310+ - including the one from Kawi performed on a dyno in a room full of people live - but no one wants to quote any of those because it doesn't make the H2R look bad. Just because motorcycle.com couldn't get it done doesn't mean it isn't there. They did everything they could to cripple that bike including using Gadson's H2 ECU. They might as well have shoved a potato in the tailpipe. How did that one, awful example become the yardstick by which all H2R's are measured?

Saying an H2 is anything like the R is monumentally, embarrassingly wrong. The only way you can possibly make that comparison is to have never ridden both.

If you need a cheat sheet on just how 'nearly identical' the H2 and H2R are - here you go;

The H2R is simply what any of us would do to the H2 if we had the unlimited resources of Kawasaki Heavy Industries at our disposal. There are four major differences…and a million little ones. Comparing the two bikes it becomes abundantly clear that other than general shape, a few panels and the transmission, they're barely even related;

- The entire upper fairing is completely different down to the shape, the windscreen, the bolts that hold it in, the inner covers and the materials its made out of. The wings are obviously different - but they're not just some flimsy carbon impregnated plastic - they're legit, F1 level quality structural elements. If an H2R ever fell over (dear God please don't ever let me find out), the upper and lower wings will easily hold it up. They're not $1500 a piece just to keep you buying an extra set and selling them.

-The wiring harness is different in interesting ways (we'll cover that later).

-The rake and trail are different. H2 - 24.5/103mm vs H2R 25.1/108

-The dimensions are even different; The H2 is (LxWxH) 2,085 x 770 x 1,125 mm VS the H2R 2,070 x 770 x 1,160 mm

-The H2R's seat height is 5mm lower

-The H2R is 48.5 pounds lighter

-Has 23.2 more ft lbs of torque (aka 31.5nm)

-The left control is cosmetically/functionally different.

-The function of the meter unit is very different; you can select ABS off, front only or front/rear, it has a lap timer, minute/hour meter to keep track of time spent over 8,000RPM, a max speed memory function and completely different KTRC and mode programming.

-The ECU is obviously different including a 14,500rpm rev limit as opposed to 10,500rpm on the H2. That's because;

-The air filter surface area of the H2R is roughly 2.5x larger (the H2R needs four times the air required on the H2), the intake (one of the major differences) is entirely made of carbon fiber, weighs nothing, uses both inlets (larger than the H2 on both sides) and the entire system/volume/area is significantly larger than the H2 (13,000 mm2 for the H2R). The runner is much larger, has a smoother, uninterrupted curve, is not impeded at the supercharger in any way and the system is completely sealed fore and aft. The resonator that the BOV terminates in is also carbon fiber (it's kinda cool that they constructed parts out of carbon where they could that aren't even visible).

-The H2R runner has a constriction in the middle to increase the Venturi effect of the air coming in (it's shape helps speed up the air and increase its pressure before it even reaches the supercharger). It also has a $3200 carbon resonator attached to deal with the pushback of the intake valves and keep the incoming air smooth. These guys weren't messing around!

-The R has no cooling fans partly due to intended use (read; no stop and go traffic) - but partly because of how the cams function (another major difference). The cams have more duration and lift obviously to utilize the extra air and fuel being rammed in - but they also do something pretty clever; the exhaust lobes have more duration and actually use the supercharged intake air to clear out spent gasses on the exhaust stroke and cool the cylinders at high RPM. (That's also why the exhaust is different and why it's dangerous to go too far with lifting your H2's rev limiter).

-The entire exhaust system stem to stern is different and made of only one material (titanium) vs titanium and stainless mix of the H2.

-The crankcase, cam and compression are different, not the gasket (major, major difference - however the cylinder head, gasket, pistons and crank are the same on both bikes.) The H2 is 8.5:1 vs the H2R at 8.25:1

-The H2R has two additional clutch plates

-The fuel pump is different ($1500 on the R)

-The tire sizes are different (the R uses a 190 rear, the H2 comes with a 200)

-The rear chain/drive/sprocket and hub on the R are different; 42 teeth (plus all the attached bits) vs 44 for the H2.

They didn't just slap some carbon on it, pull the cat off and call it a day. They went bonkers tweaking and optimizing every single element. That's why the H2R is special just beyond the obvious HP gains.
Cliff,

The H2 rev limiter is 13,250. The throttle body restriction kicks in at 10,500rpm.

That's a pretty comprehensive list. While it's true that the H2 will never match the exclusivity of the H2R, I think with the exception of the additional clutch plates, crankcase, ECU, and the Meter functions, everything else can be achieved with aftermarket and custom work. But now you're around $40,000 anyway and you might as well have just bought an R I guess.

The differences in weight are likely due to the lighting equipment and exhaust on the H2. Also the carbon bodywork is lighter. I bet that's where the 48lbs is.

The bikes are very different as delivered but I don't think they are "Worlds" apart. At least not like the 90s where the racers ran works frames, gear driven cams etc., and where street bikes shared absolutely nothing in common. Custom clamps can be made. Geometry can be tweaked. Cams can be ground. Ram air systems can be fabricated quite easily, molds can be created to create more intake velocity....... and the fact that the H2 has a quarter point more compression is actually an advantage.... at least when it comes to low end torque.

Stock H2 VS. Stock H2R = H2R wins
Unrestricted H2 VS. Unrestricted H2R = H2R wins
Stock H2 VS. Unrestricted H2R = H2R wins
Unrestricted H2 VS. Stock H2R = H2 Wins

The H2R is definitely the benchmark. With that said, it's not entirely inconceivable for an H2 with custom work to match or even possibly beat a unrestricted R on a spec sheet but now you're approaching H2R money and that really wouldn't make much sense.

In the R's case, I believe the winglets are slowing the bike down on the top end runs. They are designed to help keep the front end down while accelerating, but they create more frontal area which increases aerodynamic drag thereby slowing things down. I'm surprised no one has removed those winglets and done a top speed run yet on an H2R. I remember back in '99 when they were testing the Hayabusa and picked up about 6mph just by removing the mirrors.

.....can't really blame guys for wanting to get "R" performance (or at least close to it) in a street legal package with less money. If Kawasaki would have offered a "street kit (exhaust, ECU, headlight assembly) package for the R so folks could ride it on the road, I would have definitely bought the R instead (After spending nearly $30k, what's another $20k?). ....just for the winglets alone. I love the look of that and am kind of salty that Kawasaki doesn't have an accessory catalogue (which I put in the survey they sent me).

The best case scenario would be to have both the H2 and the H2R.
Supercharged likes this.

Last edited by Turbo329; 05-22-2016 at 09:26 AM.
Turbo329 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 20 Old 05-22-2016, 08:32 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo329 View Post
Cliff,

The H2 rev limiter is 13,250. The throttle body restriction kicks in at 10,500rpm.

That's a pretty comprehensive list. While it's true that the H2 will never match the exclusivity of the H2R, I think with the exception of the additional clutch plates, crankcase, ECU, and the Meter functions, everything else can be achieved with aftermarket and custom work. But now you're around $40,000 anyway and you might as well have just bought an R I guess.

The differences in weight are likely due to the lighting equipment and exhaust on the H2. Also the carbon bodywork is lighter. I bet that's where the 48lbs is.

The bikes are very different as delivered but I don't think they are "Worlds" apart. At least not like the 90s where the racers ran works frames, gear driven cams etc., and where street bikes shared absolutely nothing in common. Custom clamps can be made. Geometry can be tweaked. Cams can be ground. Ram air systems can be fabricated quite easily, molds can be created to create more intake velocity....... and the fact that the H2 has a quarter point more compression is actually an advantage.... at least when it comes to low end torque.

Stock H2 VS. Stock H2R = H2R wins
Unrestricted H2 VS. Unrestricted H2R = H2R wins
Stock H2 VS. Unrestricted H2R = H2R wins
Unrestricted H2 VS. Stock H2R = H2 Wins

The H2R is definitely the benchmark. With that said, it's not entirely inconceivable for an H2 with custom work to match or even possibly beat a unrestricted R on a spec sheet but now you're approaching H2R money and that really wouldn't make much sense.

In the R's case, I believe the winglets are slowing the bike down on the top end runs. They are designed to help keep the front end down while accelerating, but they create more frontal area which increases aerodynamic drag thereby slowing things down. I'm surprised no one has removed those winglets and done a top speed run yet on an H2R. I remember back in '99 when they were testing the Hayabusa and picked up about 6mph just by removing the mirrors.

.....can't really blame guys for wanting to get "R" performance (or at least close to it) in a street legal package with less money. If Kawasaki would have offered a "street kit (exhaust, ECU, headlight assembly) package for the R so folks could ride it on the road, I would have definitely bought the R instead (After spending nearly $30k, what's another $20k?). ....just for the winglets alone. I love the look of that and am kind of salty that Kawasaki doesn't have an accessory catalogue (which I put in the survey they sent me).

The best case scenario would be to have both the H2 and the H2R.
I know the rev limit on the H2 is higher than 10,500 but after that the throttle is cut to 20% because the H2 can't flow the air or fuel to utilize much more than that safely. At 10.5k its basically done. 10k is where the H2R transforms into a monster.

I can assure you that under no circumstances will an unrestricted H2 touch a bone stock H2R. To think that is to fundamentally misunderstand how the bikes are different (and again, to have never ridden one). I literally just got off mine 10 minutes ago and what that thing does after 10 grand is absolutely obscene. The H2 just does not have the airflow for that kind of ridiculousness. Honestly, if there's more to be had from the H2R I don't want it. Couldn't use it anyway. The H2R is a pissed axe murderer off its medication. It's so grossly overpowered now you can't use all of it no matter how brave you are because the thing will flip itself over in any gear at any speed. Unless you put the H2R's upper fairing, runner, resonator, fuel pump, fuel management unit, ECU and cam on your H2 you don't have a chance. I'd argue you even need the wings because under hard throttle past 150 its still trying to come up even with the KTRC on 2-. You can actually hear the roar of the wind change and feel the weight as the wings push the front back down.

Don't take any of this the wrong way 329 'cause I like you; but if there were any scientific or aftermarket engineering possibility of a modified H2 coming even close to the H2R, I would've kept it. I wish more of you guys had some seat time on an R because 5 minutes on one and we'd never have this conversation again. You can't ride mine but anybody wants a shot, come on down. I don't care what you've done to your H2 long as the gearing isn't lower than 18/42 (I don't have any interest in modifying it for top speed - its perfect as it is). We can do 1/4, 1/2, mile, drag, roll on...whatever. It'd be my pleasure to show you what a fantastic thing Kawasaki have made.
selenap and 880turbo like this.
Cliff Secord is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 05-22-2016, 09:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Turbo329's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Secord View Post
I know the rev limit on the H2 is higher than 10,500 but after that the throttle is cut to 20% because the H2 can't flow the air or fuel to utilize much more than that safely. At 10.5k its basically done. 10k is where the H2R transforms into a monster.

I can assure you that under no circumstances will an unrestricted H2 touch a bone stock H2R. To think that is to fundamentally misunderstand how the bikes are different (and again, to have never ridden one). I literally just got off mine 10 minutes ago and what that thing does after 10 grand is absolutely obscene. The H2 just does not have the airflow for that kind of ridiculousness. Honestly, if there's more to be had from the H2R I don't want it. Couldn't use it anyway. The H2R is a pissed axe murderer off its medication. It's so grossly overpowered now you can't use all of it no matter how brave you are because the thing will flip itself over in any gear at any speed. Unless you put the H2R's upper fairing, runner, resonator, fuel pump, fuel management unit, ECU and cam on your H2 you don't have a chance. I'd argue you even need the wings because under hard throttle past 150 its still trying to come up even with the KTRC on 2-. You can actually hear the roar of the wind change and feel the weight as the wings push the front back down.

Don't take any of this the wrong way 329 'cause I like you; but if there were any scientific or aftermarket engineering possibility of a modified H2 coming even close to the H2R, I would've kept it. I wish more of you guys had some seat time on an R because 5 minutes on one and we'd never have this conversation again. You can't ride mine but anybody wants a shot, come on down. I don't care what you've done to your H2 long as the gearing isn't lower than 18/42 (I don't have any interest in modifying it for top speed - its perfect as it is). We can do 1/4, 1/2, mile, drag, roll on...whatever. It'd be my pleasure to show you what a fantastic thing Kawasaki have made.
I definitely need to keep an open mind because I've never ridden an R. It's true, you can't ride a spec sheet either. My H2 unrestricted is definitely running lean (my seat of the pants gut intuition) and I need to get to a dyno ASAP for a custom map. The exhaust exit is bone dry with no soot and it's a little too "perky" over 8,000rpm. However, Even in it's suboptimal state of tune, that thing scares the snot outta me.

So, if what you're saying is true in that an unrestricted H2 (260HP on the SAE scale) is not in the ballpark of an R over 10k RPM then that is pretty frightening.

I'm planning to hit the Ohio mile at some point (and possibly Mid-Ohio). I'll hit you up when I do so I can see this thing first hand.

Regarding the comment about some H2Rs being restricted, maybe that's a US thing vs EUR vs JAP vs AUS, etc. It's a real puzzle though because yours isn't restricted. It'd be nice for Kawasaki to set the record straight on this.
880turbo likes this.

Last edited by Turbo329; 05-22-2016 at 09:17 PM.
Turbo329 is offline  
 
post #14 of 20 Old 05-25-2016, 04:41 PM
Senior Member
 
STRADALE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Garage
@ Ciff - First off you must have some kinda magic, you get banned but then are able to continue posting, not only w/ other ids but the one that was vanquished! But welcome back.

"almost identical" I think is a lot more accurate than its "clear that other than general shape, a few panels and the transmission, they're barely even related" I mean besides the cams & crankcase, it's the same engine, it's the same transmission, it's the same frame, suspension, brakes, wheels, swingarm, triple trees, super charger, rear cowl, seat, etc. X 1000. If you get down to every part, nut, screw & fastener, in terms of the number of parts, % wise the bikes probably share 90% of all parts, maybe more. The 2 bikes are lot more related then different.

Youve posted many times that Motorcycle.com used RGs ECU for their Dyno test and that's why they got a low 230 rwhp, that doesn't make any sense first of all since RGs ECU already posted 295 rwhp reflashed but anyway,,,,, motorcycle.com did NOT use RGs ECU on the Dyno. While trying to to break 200mph in the half mile an H2R customer at the event switched his stock ECU w/ Rickey's for the 200mph attempt, RGs ECU wasn't run in motorcycle.coms test H2R or their H2R dyno test.

I know Kawasaki gave you a Dyno sheet of 326/321 bhp and I get that Kawasaki ran the H2R on a Dyno in "a room full of people", did they release rwhp? ..But that doesn't answer the question, other than Kawasaki providing bhp numbers (who knows what rwhp to bhp calculations they were using) I'm interested in any Dyno post factory showing more than 230-265rwhp for a bone stock H2R. Cause we have 6 H2R dyno tests that I know of not just from Motorcycle.com but from various other parts suppliers like Akrapovic (231 rwhp) and other mags, between them, they've come in at 230-265 rwhp. At 326/321 bhp, the bike should make approx 290-295 rwhp. Performance Bikes tested 2 different H2Rs & got 250rwhp & 264rwhp.......Im happy to hear you're actually riding your H2R, hopefully more than to just "cars & coffee" as you posted in that video (it was nicely done) but should definitely Dyno your bike, now that you're riding it, why not. And if you don't want to do that please just point me to a stock H2R rwhp number that aligns w/ your bhp number.

Not sure if you've ever ridden a Stage II H2 but it is a very different animal from the stock H2. And the weight difference of 48lbs, you have to remember the oem H2 exhaust weights 37lbs, put in a lithium ion battery, etc. Plus you've added weight back in, the extra H2 fan plus the other street legal bits so the weight isn't a big factor stage II H2 vs your modified H2R, maybe it's a 15lbs. I'd say the performance H2R owners are feeling is exactly the power Stage II owners are feeling, at least those H2R owners at approx. 230-264rwhp which is every H2R I've seen tested.

Re: your comment - "I can assure you that under no circumstances will an unrestricted H2 touch a bone stock H2R." - Under no circumstances except what we've seen so far in the 1/4 mile, at the mile and top speed records. If the stock H2R is making 321 bhp, and on top of that as you say the inlet, air filter, ram air is such a huge advantage how is it that at over 200mph with full ram air in effect, the stock H2R has already been beaten in the 1/4/, the mile and top speed by Stage II H2s, I really just don't see how that possible if the H2R is really making 40-50 more at the rear wheel?

It appears like Kawi tuned in an ultra rich mixture to protect the H2R engine at the expensive of top end power, who knows maybe even after they did the factory dynos. One of the posters here that has an H2R got 295 rwhp after reflash w/ Don. That's exactly what RG got too w/ his hybrid after Dons reflash & 295 rwhp = 326 bhp, why even work on a reflash for the H2R if it won't add any rwhp & if it's already making 295 rwhp/326 bhp? The reflash is getting rid of the H2Rs flat spot at 12,800 rpm.

I'm referring to multiple RWHP Dyno tests by numerous testers and real world LSR, you're pointing to a brake horsepower mso Dyno sheet that Kawasaki gave you and saying the H2R 'cannot be beat under any circumstances by a stage II H2' when its already happened and been certified again & again & again.
mick46 likes this.

Last edited by STRADALE; 05-25-2016 at 06:43 PM.
STRADALE is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 05-25-2016, 07:18 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRADALE View Post
@ Ciff - First off you must have some kinda magic, you get banned but then are able to continue posting, not only w/ other ids but the one that was vanquished! But welcome back.

"almost identical" I think is a lot more accurate than its "clear that other than general shape, a few panels and the transmission, they're barely even related" I mean besides the cams & crankcase, it's the same engine, it's the same transmission, it's the same frame, suspension, brakes, wheels, swingarm, triple trees, super charger, rear cowl, seat, etc. X 1000. If you get down to every part, nut, screw & fastener, in terms of the number of parts, % wise the bikes probably share 90% of all parts, maybe more. The 2 bikes are lot more related then different.

Youve posted many times that Motorcycle.com used RGs ECU for their Dyno test and that's why they got a low 230 rwhp, that doesn't make any sense first of all since RGs ECU already posted 295 rwhp reflashed but anyway,,,,, motorcycle.com did NOT use RGs ECU on the Dyno. While trying to to break 200mph in the half mile an H2R customer at the event switched his stock ECU w/ Rickey's for the 200mph attempt, RGs ECU wasn't run in motorcycle.coms test H2R or their H2R dyno test.

I know Kawasaki gave you a Dyno sheet of 326/321 bhp and I get that Kawasaki ran the H2R on a Dyno in "a room full of people", did they release rwhp? ..But that doesn't answer the question, other than Kawasaki providing bhp numbers (who knows what rwhp to bhp calculations they were using) I'm interested in any Dyno post factory showing more than 230-265rwhp for a bone stock H2R. Cause we have 6 H2R dyno tests that I know of not just from Motorcycle.com but from various other parts suppliers like Akrapovic (231 rwhp) and other mags, between them, they've come in at 230-265 rwhp. At 326/321 bhp, the bike should make approx 290-295 rwhp. Performance Bikes tested 2 different H2Rs & got 250rwhp & 264rwhp.......Im happy to hear you're actually riding your H2R, hopefully more than to just "cars & coffee" as you posted in that video (it was nicely done) but should definitely Dyno your bike, now that you're riding it, why not. And if you don't want to do that please just point me to a stock H2R rwhp number that aligns w/ your bhp number.

Not sure if you've ever ridden a Stage II H2 but it is a very different animal from the stock H2. And the weight difference of 48lbs, you have to remember the oem H2 exhaust weights 37lbs, put in a lithium ion battery, etc. Plus you've added weight back in, the extra H2 fan plus the other street legal bits so the weight isn't a big factor stage II H2 vs your modified H2R, maybe it's a 15lbs. I'd say the performance H2R owners are feeling is exactly the power Stage II owners are feeling, at least those H2R owners at approx. 230-264rwhp which is every H2R I've seen tested.

Re: your comment - "I can assure you that under no circumstances will an unrestricted H2 touch a bone stock H2R." - Under no circumstances except what we've seen so far in the 1/4 mile, at the mile and top speed records. If the stock H2R is making 321 bhp, and on top of that as you say the inlet, air filter, ram air is such a huge advantage how is it that at over 200mph with full ram air in effect, the stock H2R has already been beaten in the 1/4/, the mile and top speed by Stage II H2s, I really just don't see how that possible if the H2R is really making 40-50 more at the rear wheel?

It appears like Kawi tuned in an ultra rich mixture to protect the H2R engine at the expensive of top end power, who knows maybe even after they did the factory dynos. One of the posters here that has an H2R got 295 rwhp after reflash w/ Don. That's exactly what RG got too w/ his hybrid after Dons reflash & 295 rwhp = 326 bhp, why even work on a reflash for the H2R if it won't add any rwhp & if it's already making 295 rwhp/326 bhp? The reflash is getting rid of the H2Rs flat spot at 12,800 rpm.

I'm referring to multiple RWHP Dyno tests by numerous testers and real world LSR, you're pointing to a brake horsepower mso Dyno sheet that Kawasaki gave you and saying the H2R 'cannot be beat under any circumstances by a stage II H2' when its already happened and been certified again & again & again.
Not sure what the first part of that was about. Never got banned. Not even temporarily. Have you been seeing 'Cliffies' again behind every post you don't like? And what is your obsession with silencing everyone who disagrees with you? You can't just have a debate and agree to disagree - the other guy has gots go? For what reason? Block me if you don't like what I have to say. FFS I don't constantly accuse you of being SilverbirdH2 (who you obviously are) and demand your removal.

That said, I totally agree. Your H2 can beat an H2R. Do your mods, get your money together, come on down and show me. In the interim, why don't you hop on the old interwebz and send Kawi an email telling them how much time and money they wasted on all that pesky engineering. They'll love that! You should also go back and read the H2R issues of Fast Bikes and Performance Bikes where they've all said nearly verbatim everything I've been telling you. Have this argument with THEM and see how far you get. Best of luck.

I will give you one small warning; you may talk tough on the internet but if you show up and speak to me like you do here, you aren't going to get polite discourse in return. I don't mind talking bikes but you keep making it personal. I don't care for it.
selenap likes this.

Last edited by Cliff Secord; 05-25-2016 at 07:24 PM.
Cliff Secord is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 05-25-2016, 07:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: peak district, england
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Having just re-read the aforementioned articles in both Fast Bikes and Performance Bikes ... Cliff dude.. If you think those articles are saying "verbatim" the same as you , then you are massively mistaken. You have no understanding of the subject matter and should stop embarrassing yourself immediately. Try a different topic like how good clutch less downshifting is !
STRADALE likes this.
mick46 is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 05-25-2016, 10:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRADALE View Post
@ Ciff - First off you must have some kinda magic, you get banned but then are able to continue posting, not only w/ other ids but the one that was vanquished! But welcome back.

"almost identical" I think is a lot more accurate than its "clear that other than general shape, a few panels and the transmission, they're barely even related" I mean besides the cams & crankcase, it's the same engine, it's the same transmission, it's the same frame, suspension, brakes, wheels, swingarm, triple trees, super charger, rear cowl, seat, etc. X 1000. If you get down to every part, nut, screw & fastener, in terms of the number of parts, % wise the bikes probably share 90% of all parts, maybe more. The 2 bikes are lot more related then different.

Youve posted many times that Motorcycle.com used RGs ECU for their Dyno test and that's why they got a low 230 rwhp, that doesn't make any sense first of all since RGs ECU already posted 295 rwhp reflashed but anyway,,,,, motorcycle.com did NOT use RGs ECU on the Dyno. While trying to to break 200mph in the half mile an H2R customer at the event switched his stock ECU w/ Rickey's for the 200mph attempt, RGs ECU wasn't run in motorcycle.coms test H2R or their H2R dyno test.

I know Kawasaki gave you a Dyno sheet of 326/321 bhp and I get that Kawasaki ran the H2R on a Dyno in "a room full of people", did they release rwhp? ..But that doesn't answer the question, other than Kawasaki providing bhp numbers (who knows what rwhp to bhp calculations they were using) I'm interested in any Dyno post factory showing more than 230-265rwhp for a bone stock H2R. Cause we have 6 H2R dyno tests that I know of not just from Motorcycle.com but from various other parts suppliers like Akrapovic (231 rwhp) and other mags, between them, they've come in at 230-265 rwhp. At 326/321 bhp, the bike should make approx 290-295 rwhp. Performance Bikes tested 2 different H2Rs & got 250rwhp & 264rwhp.......Im happy to hear you're actually riding your H2R, hopefully more than to just "cars & coffee" as you posted in that video (it was nicely done) but should definitely Dyno your bike, now that you're riding it, why not. And if you don't want to do that please just point me to a stock H2R rwhp number that aligns w/ your bhp number.

Not sure if you've ever ridden a Stage II H2 but it is a very different animal from the stock H2. And the weight difference of 48lbs, you have to remember the oem H2 exhaust weights 37lbs, put in a lithium ion battery, etc. Plus you've added weight back in, the extra H2 fan plus the other street legal bits so the weight isn't a big factor stage II H2 vs your modified H2R, maybe it's a 15lbs. I'd say the performance H2R owners are feeling is exactly the power Stage II owners are feeling, at least those H2R owners at approx. 230-264rwhp which is every H2R I've seen tested.

Re: your comment - "I can assure you that under no circumstances will an unrestricted H2 touch a bone stock H2R." - Under no circumstances except what we've seen so far in the 1/4 mile, at the mile and top speed records. If the stock H2R is making 321 bhp, and on top of that as you say the inlet, air filter, ram air is such a huge advantage how is it that at over 200mph with full ram air in effect, the stock H2R has already been beaten in the 1/4/, the mile and top speed by Stage II H2s, I really just don't see how that possible if the H2R is really making 40-50 more at the rear wheel?

It appears like Kawi tuned in an ultra rich mixture to protect the H2R engine at the expensive of top end power, who knows maybe even after they did the factory dynos. One of the posters here that has an H2R got 295 rwhp after reflash w/ Don. That's exactly what RG got too w/ his hybrid after Dons reflash & 295 rwhp = 326 bhp, why even work on a reflash for the H2R if it won't add any rwhp & if it's already making 295 rwhp/326 bhp? The reflash is getting rid of the H2Rs flat spot at 12,800 rpm.

I'm referring to multiple RWHP Dyno tests by numerous testers and real world LSR, you're pointing to a brake horsepower mso Dyno sheet that Kawasaki gave you and saying the H2R 'cannot be beat under any circumstances by a stage II H2' when its already happened and been certified again & again & again.
lol, your letting this argument ruin your life!
Cliff Secord likes this.
selenap is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 05-25-2016, 11:08 PM
Super Moderator

 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 689
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
"I reject your reality and substitute my own" - Mythbusters
Turtle1000, selenap and STRADALE like this.
GoFaster is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 05-26-2016, 09:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Turbo329's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Secord View Post
I will give you one small warning; you may talk tough on the internet but if you show up and speak to me like you do here, you aren't going to get polite discourse in return. I don't mind talking bikes but you keep making it personal. I don't care for it.



STRADALE likes this.
Turbo329 is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 05-26-2016, 11:42 AM
Senior Member
 
STRADALE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Secord View Post
Not sure what the first part of that was about. Never got banned. Not even temporarily. Have you been seeing 'Cliffies' again behind every post you don't like? And what is your obsession with silencing everyone who disagrees with you? You can't just have a debate and agree to disagree - the other guy has gots go? For what reason? Block me if you don't like what I have to say. FFS I don't constantly accuse you of being SilverbirdH2 (who you obviously are) and demand your removal.

That said, I totally agree. Your H2 can beat an H2R. Do your mods, get your money together, come on down and show me. In the interim, why don't you hop on the old interwebz and send Kawi an email telling them how much time and money they wasted on all that pesky engineering. They'll love that! You should also go back and read the H2R issues of Fast Bikes and Performance Bikes where they've all said nearly verbatim everything I've been telling you. Have this argument with THEM and see how far you get. Best of luck.

I will give you one small warning; you may talk tough on the internet but if you show up and speak to me like you do here, you aren't going to get polite discourse in return. I don't mind talking bikes but you keep making it personal. I don't care for it.

I guess when the moderators removed your/VIR posts and then said directly afterwards, if you get banned you cannot post again and "We know that using alternate usernames to get around bans is a violation of the terms of service". I thought that happened to you, could have sworn it did but huh, ok guess not, my bad then. If I'm wrong have no problem saying so.......I'm SilverbirdH2? lol! I wish I had his type of riding scenery everyday, our bikes exhausts, seats, etc. are different & as you can see from my pics I also don't have silver hair nor 6'1 but okayyyy dokey (insert Twilight zone theme music)

Nope, I have no problem speaking w/ you, zero,,,never did. I've said before that you've contributed here when you've managed to keep focused on the topics & not get personal like you have w/ others, totally agree it's ok to agree to disagree as long as it's kept civil, I actually enjoy a good debate or whatever you want to call it, for me it's a good way to learn, for instance I wasn't aware the H2R didn't have the H2s extra fan till you mentioned it, so let's move on, shall we?

Re:Cliff Secord - "Do your mods, get your money together, come on down and show me. In the interim, why don't you hop on the old interwebz and send Kawi an email telling them how much time and money they wasted on all that pesky engineering."

Already got my "money together" had my "mods" installed since November. 4000 miles stock & 5000 with the mods so I have a good idea what the bike is capable of but glad you decided to finally start using your H2R a week or so ago instead of selling it without ever riding it, bet it's incredible. Anyway, my bike : Guhl /Brocks Stage II reflash, PCV, Brocks full polished exhaust, Alien Head 2, DNA filter, ETC. Pic below. It's a fire breathing, pavement eating monster. My bike is legal for the street (in all sense of the word) so maybe you're right, it would be a better idea if I come to you plus I don't mind the miles plz no "cars & coffee" rides though.

We all know Kawi didn't 'waste their time or money', on the H2R, that's not what I'm saying (& easily cured to almost 300 rwhp w/ a reflash), it's simply that tuners are willing to go where manufactures may not. Obviously a stock H2R is faster than a stock H2 so it's not about Kawasaki "wasting their money", if that were the case you could say every high end sports car manufacturer on earth is wasting their time & money because you can safely tune, reflash, modify say,,,,,a Porsche Turbo to outperform a Turbo S, etc.

Re: Cliff Secord - " You should also go back and read the H2R issues of Fast Bikes and Performance Bikes where they've all said nearly verbatim everything I've been telling you."

That was layup, yes let's do that.... They absolutely LOVED the H2R, why wouldn't they, bone stock it's the fastest production motorcycle on the planet and it's just dripping insane carbon clad godliness, no one is questioning that. ......However, you'll notice "they've said nearly verbatim everything I've been telling you."
On the first page of the article (p7, below) they commented that with the first H2R they tested they were slightly "disappointed" (their words) it "only" (tongue-in-cheek) did 206mph and 250 rwhp vs. the expectations/HP power figures given by Kawasaki. Performance Bikes dyno chart (p43, below) of the 2nd H2R they tested last month, 264rwhp (highest stock H2R # I've seen) post 12,800 rpm where power stops building, huh, kinda like what the motorcycle.com article mentioned,,,, that the H2R was probably tuned w/ an ultra rich mixture AFTER it was initially tuned leaner, in order to protect the engine at the expense of some peak power.

[I]"So, the horsepower number is well into the double triple-digits, but it’s not quite as sick as what Kawi claims, so we wonder if Team Green’s engineers played it a bit safe by spec’ing an overly rich mixture after initially tuning leaner for maximum power. There was a strong smell of gas from the H2R during our dyno runs and the dyno testing performed by other tuners. This keeps intake-charge temperatures lower (remember, the H2/R doesn’t use an intercooler), thereby enabling operation without danger of detonation or internal parts ending up on the outside. Brock Davidson of Brock’s Performance describes the mixture as “incredibly rich,” somewhere near a 10:1 air/fuel ratio. Such a rich mixture comes at the expense of some peak power."[I]






Last edited by STRADALE; 05-26-2016 at 03:55 PM.
STRADALE is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome