So what about the future of the H2? - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 12-11-2014, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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So what about the future of the H2?

I'd like to throw a thought out there and I really don't know the answer.

Let's start with the Corvette ZR-1. An existing engine that was supercharged by the factory and given BIG horsepower and a sprinkling of other good stuff. It was a very limited production run and cost quite a bit. Really just a regular Vette with all the wishlists already checked off.

I always thought that Chevy planned on doing a really over the top car and decided to do a small test run to see how to set up the factory line and suppliers and will the chassis take the extra power and what are people willing to pay etc..
So they do this limited test car and selling enough of them pays for their costs of developing the now Zo-6. Nice way to pay for your initial outlay. The folks that bought the ZR-1 sorta financed the Z0-6.

So lets look at the H2.
We have a very limited run of a bike that is over the top, much more expensive and very desirable. But does the h-2 as a continuous run of new model years showroom floor bike hurt the sales of the zx 1000 ? I would think so.

Is the H2 a market test for what is going to come next? Like no more zx1000 but a wider range of smaller motor supercharged bikes with the h-2 replacing the 1000. Will people pay extra for the super? Will they accept the extra weight penalty of these bikes?

The more I think about it the more I am convincing myself that we are seeing the next step in production engines of all kinds... positive aspirated with lots of electronics.

There is really no other way to continue to build faster cars and bikes that can meet Fed regulations and still be rideable.

I am thinking the h2 is the first market test a welcome technology.

Something else occurs to me, Kaw is advertising the Heck out of a motorcycle that you can't buy.

Whaddya think?
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post #2 of 12 Old 12-12-2014, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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The only thing that makes any sense to me is that the H-2 is a market test bike for the way Kaw (and eventually others) are going in the future. I'm going to hang myself on a limb and the future will tell.
600 cc bikes that make 1000 cc numbers for instance. We are gonna see this supercharger on more of their bikes soon.

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post #3 of 12 Old 12-12-2014, 09:44 AM
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@Fretka I think you're positively spot on for one simple reason, emissions and regulations. Autos have shown us the trend, manufacturers are downsizing engine size coupled with forced induction to meet fuel economy and emission regulations. We've already been seeing for several years manufacturers rolling their bikes out running lean mixtures so I think logically we could see that as the next step.

HOWEVER

Another important factor in this I believe is SE Asia. Quickly becoming the big fours bread and butter, these nations are motorcycle crazy but severely restricted displacement wise by regulation. So in the same vein as 600's making 1000 numbers, I think their real goal at the end of this is figuring out how to manufacture 300's making 600 numbers. In places like Thailand and Indonesia they'll enjoy a rarity, high margins and high volume...Ostensibly that is.

Simply put, America and Europe have become passe...
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post #4 of 12 Old 12-14-2014, 04:55 AM
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I think the US and Europe drive the big horse power innovation. SE Asia doesn't have the appetite for higher HP where the huge majority of sales are geared towards practicality as opposed to fun factor.

The H2 is not meant to cannibalise other Kwaka offerings. It's a once in a few years show of how good they are which will lead to sales in their other bikes. The ZX-10R is due for a refresh and watch out - it should be amazing on the back of their "demo" H2 bike.

Rock.
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post #5 of 12 Old 12-14-2014, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
I think the US and Europe drive the big horse power innovation. SE Asia doesn't have the appetite for higher HP where the huge majority of sales are geared towards practicality as opposed to fun factor.

The H2 is not meant to cannibalise other Kwaka offerings. It's a once in a few years show of how good they are which will lead to sales in their other bikes. The ZX-10R is due for a refresh and watch out - it should be amazing on the back of their "demo" H2 bike.

Rock.
Yeah, they call it "corporate goodwill" or something like.

You could be very right (which would be kind of a letdown). Not to say that what Mother K builds isn't good it's just................

Toyota did this very same thing that you brought up with their LFA car. Auto people seem to be confused over why they didn't follow-up on this car.

Once again, I think that we will see more of the H2 to come tho. The factories seem to be edging towards a possible political backlash with these bikes (legislation to kill these bikes happened before with that Senator from Missouri, but failed) so on the one hand they want to be on top with big numbers but not too much that will invite new legislation. IT WILL HAPPEN, but who knows when?

One reason to not do stupid stuff like we see on the mainstream media with these brain-dead idiots pulling wheelies on the freeway and harassing cops. THEIR ACTIONS WILL MAKE ALL OF US PAY!
We have all seen this with hunting, target shooting, lasers, etc...

Anyway I'll stand behind my previous guess that we will see more of this cool tech. But again, you could be very right.
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post #6 of 12 Old 12-14-2014, 04:11 PM
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I think that one of the reasons behind the H2 being built and sold the way they are doing it, is to keep them *out* of the hands of squidiots, and thus off the radar of the regulators and insurance companies. We've already seen plenty of what the "spec sheet racers" think.

For that matter, it sure looks like Kawasaki is keeping them out of the hands of the journalists, too.

No one will ever know what these bikes will do ... until WE find out for ourselves!
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post #7 of 12 Old 12-15-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
I think that one of the reasons behind the H2 being built and sold the way they are doing it, is to keep them *out* of the hands of squidiots, and thus off the radar of the regulators and insurance companies. We've already seen plenty of what the "spec sheet racers" think.

For that matter, it sure looks like Kawasaki is keeping them out of the hands of the journalists, too.

No one will ever know what these bikes will do ... until WE find out for ourselves!
That's one of the things i liked about it's high price, which really goes for anything, not limited to bikes. For a good part of it, there's a mindset that complements someone who has worked their way up the ranks to become wealthy, different to expect of that crowd.
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post #8 of 12 Old 12-15-2014, 11:33 AM
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I can tell you right now that mine will be ridden with a great deal of discretion and respect ... and will *not* be seen in the midst of a group ride doing wheelies on the motorway.
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post #9 of 12 Old 12-16-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
I think the US and Europe drive the big horse power innovation. SE Asia doesn't have the appetite for higher HP where the huge majority of sales are geared towards practicality as opposed to fun factor.

The H2 is not meant to cannibalise other Kwaka offerings. It's a once in a few years show of how good they are which will lead to sales in their other bikes. The ZX-10R is due for a refresh and watch out - it should be amazing on the back of their "demo" H2 bike.

Rock.
SE Asia is where all the manus are making their cake. I agree that SE asia is likely the prime motivator here as well. They may not be the obvious horsepower 'innovators' as you say but thats because of punitive legislation that essentially makes anything above 300cc unaffordable.

What I'm saying is in SE asia you cant just simply buy a bigger bike, which means for the manufacturers if they can come up with a way around the displacement laws while making big power numbers (relative to other same size displacement) they're looking at pure gravy. We're talking about at least a decade of pent up demand for FAST bikes.

It's a contrary opinion sure, but we're not driving this bus any longer. Sure the H2 and R will move most in Eur and Asia but don't let that fool you into thinking we're most important. We're guinea pigs plain and simple (not that its a bad thing).

Honda?s small sports bike expansion - Motorcycle news : General news - Visordown

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Because Indonesia – which is one of the biggest bike markets in the world – charges a 60% tax on bikes over 250cc (rising to 75% over 500cc), as well as a 60% import duty. So a £5,000, 600cc commuter bike imported from abroad would cost the equivalent of £14,000. So you can probably understand why virtually every bike sold in Indonesia (and there are around 8 million of them every year) is under 250cc and built locally.

To add to that perspective, the new half-million-bike-per-year production line at Karawang is added to the plant’s existing 1.1 million unit capacity. And it’s Honda’s fourth Indonesian factory; in total, the firm currently makes 5.3 million bikes per annum in Indonesia alone via its ‘Astra Honda Motor’ joint venture in the country.
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Now, Indonesia’s growing prosperity means there are riders who want performance and technology, and can afford to pay for it, but they understandably baulk at the mad taxes on larger, imported bikes. The time is ripe for a new generation of mental, high-tech 250s. Kawasaki is already rumoured to be working on a 250cc four-cylinder sportsbike, to add to its existing single-cylinder and twin-cylinder offerings (the Ninja 300 is still around as a 250 in certain markets, and has been joined by the Ninja 250SL single.) Surely, with such a huge investment in the Indonesian market, Honda must have ideas of following suit.
There's your prime driver, that's the nature of Economics.
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post #10 of 12 Old 12-16-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
I can tell you right now that mine will be ridden with a great deal of discretion and respect ... and will *not* be seen in the midst of a group ride doing wheelies on the motorway.
Good to know that, I just wonder what percentage of H2 owners will also be like that as i'm sure there will be some that might not share the same discretion and respect as you will.
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