Hmmm is my H2 slow??? - Page 22 - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
 60Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #211 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 06:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRADALE View Post
Never said that the H2 makes 170-180 rwhp, in fact no one did. And Ted never said he was told 175rwhp was acceptable, he was just speculating that if it made a very low # of 175 what IF they said that was within the norm. I didnít even say that it typically makes mid 180ís, I said there are a couple of posters here (low outliers) that have posted such & if you look back Iím in those threads saying itís an extremely low #, not the norm. Like I mentioned twice, most Iíve see make mid-high 190ís. You even mentioned 195rwhp for the H2 which would kinda suck for the H2 if the 10R actually makes 190 rwhp all day long,,, what would be the point of a heavy supercharger, if 190rwhp is the avg for what 10Rís make stock w/ itís weight advantage would probably leave an H2 sitting still, or at minimum the H2 wouldnít have any advantage. The flashed 10R you posted about from BSD at 190rwhp was also STD so higher, (probably 186 SAE but thatís flashed) So if a stock 10R makes 190rwhp, what a waste of money & effort for the can & mapping to achieve the same 190rwhp result as a stock 10R, no?

If you search back into the dyno chart threads youíll see that there was a ton of info on Brockís dyno from back then (early 2016), some people (not me) complaining that it was a very giving/gifting dyno. Not because of that but Brock no longer uses it, his newer, better dyno is more conservative, heíll probably even tell you as such. Just like how Don Guhls dyno was notoriously conservative, as you can see here w/ an H2 @ 183rwhp,,,, on his dyno flashed 10Rís make in the 170ís:


The dyno you just posted is not a 10R. Also donít know if thatís STD or SAE & I would think theyíre posting RWHP but it does say BHP.

Kawi rates the 10R at 197 crank hp (without Ram Air) itís just not making 190rwhp on the dyno but at 197 crank hp, if you use 12% driveline loss, itís right at that 173rwhp....

There might even be a chart for a 10R out there at 190rwhp, (you certainly havenít found one yet & definitely couldnít find as many as I did, lol!) & I literally didnít even look for low #ís as you looked for high, just posted the first ones in google images but 190 would definitely be on the highest rwhp end on an stock 10R that you will ever see, in other words not close to the average but if it does exist, itís just like the only stock 213 rwhp H2 in the world. 213 rwhp H2 stock would mean approx. 240bhp (at the crank) for a stock 15-18 H2, sorry would be absolutely great, would love it but not accurate as an avg. of what these bikes make.

I have more respect for Brock than anyone in this business & heís helped me big time but those #ís achieved by a great operator doing everything perfectly, in perfect conditions on a gifting dyno (that he no longer uses) and in STD is just not an accurate avg. #.... Brock even says that they were ďsurprised by the resultsĒ & the 213 is ďthe most of any H2 by a pretty big marginĒ & questioned whether the R1 was flashed. Even the ZX10R in those test conditions on gifting dyno where a stock H2 made a record 213rwhp, the 10R only made 181 on itís best run, the other runs were 177rwhp & 179whp, again 190 for an avg on a what all stock 10Rís make,,, ainít happening. If you basically remove 10rwhp from both bikes & you get what we would expect from an H2 hitting a high dyno # of 203rwhp for the H2, would mean 171rwhp for the 10R, those #ís would fall within what both bikes make...

Just so you know, no biggy but ďbhpĒ means brake hp/rated at the motor/crank,, rwhp (rear wheel hp) is what you get on the dyno. Youíre using bhp but referring to rwhp, Iím sure you know the difference, jus saying.


Stradale,

If the graph is not a 10R then Iím unsure what you think it is?




I donít know how the graph is calculated & care even less.

This was all about Ted checking his out, thatís all.

You win, Iím fully beaten into submission!

Ted,

Best of luck with your meet with the Kawasaki guy, if itís not easy to get to a dyno then you have to take the options available.

Hope you get a result, keep, us posted


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Lamf1969 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #212 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 06:32 AM
Senior Member
 
STRADALE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Garage
@Lamf1969 - Itís a 10RR (double R) & an SE, both of which VS. the 10R have different/active suspension, 6 axis IMU, lighter wheels, stickier tires (Supercorsas) & slightly modified, upgrade engine internals; revised cylinder head, DLC coated tappets, stiffer valve springs, think a larger air box as well, shouldnít really make a difference power wise until the Kawi Race Kit w/ Cam, pipe is fitted to the RR (not sure if you can do the same w/ the SE) but was just mentioning theyíre not your standard 10Rís.
STRADALE is offline  
post #213 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 1,191
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Garage
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRADALE View Post
Never said that the H2 makes 175-180 rwhp, in fact no one did. And Ted never said he was told 175rwhp was acceptable, he was just speculating that if it made a very low # of 175 what IF they said that was within the norm.......
Actually they did tell me 175 was okay. I'm going to find the email.
TedG is online now  
 
post #214 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 01:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedG View Post
Actually they did tell me 175 was okay. I'm going to find the email.


Ted, I know, you posted it and I read it but I couldnít be bothered to point it out...
In all honesty I think itís pretty insulting for Kawasaki to expect you to be happy with with that figure.
Post the email if you find it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Lamf1969 is online now  
post #215 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 01:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRADALE View Post
@Lamf1969 - Itís a 10RR (double R) & an SE, both of which VS. the 10R have different/active suspension, 6 axis IMU, lighter wheels, stickier tires (Supercorsas) & slightly modified, upgrade engine internals; revised cylinder head, DLC coated tappets, stiffer valve springs, think a larger air box as well, shouldnít really make a difference power wise until the Kawi Race Kit w/ Cam, pipe is fitted to the RR (not sure if you can do the same w/ the SE) but was just mentioning theyíre not your standard 10Rís.


Yes the 10RR is the one a mate has, not at all standard, itís ready to go if you want to take it racing with room for high lift cams, stronger cases etc.
According to this test the SE has the standard engine but trick electronic suspension, Akra slip on etc.
If you read the text they produced more or less identical figures.
I had a go on the RR, very long geared in first and needed revs to make it rock but weak compared to the H2.
Itís getting dated, the display is pretty awful, I expect theyíll upgrade it next year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Lamf1969 is online now  
post #216 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 02:55 PM
Senior Member
 
STRADALE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedG View Post
Here is the main issue with the dyno. So lets say it comes out 175, which I'm sure it will do. Then they will say there is nothing wrong, 175 is the number they said was just fine. No, I want them to say it is not okay. The guy going for a ride has ridden many H2s and works on their race team.

I was referring to this but I havenít read this whole thread, just what was posted on this page so if they did tell you that anything above 175rwhp is acceptable, youíre probably not speaking w/ the right person at Kawi.,,,they know what these bikes make at the tire.

Well if youíre ever in NY, youíre welcome to go for a blast on my bike, itís not stock so not sure thatíll help, itíd probably make you want a 15-16 Guhl/Brockís Stage II H2, but...
STRADALE is offline  
post #217 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 05:08 PM
Senior Member
 
STRADALE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamf1969 View Post
Yes the 10RR is the one a mate has, not at all standard, it’s ready to go if you want to take it racing with room for high lift cams, stronger cases etc.
According to this test the SE has the standard engine but trick electronic suspension, Akra slip on etc.
If you read the text they produced more or less identical figures.
I had a go on the RR, very long geared in first and needed revs to make it rock but weak compared to the H2.
It’s getting dated, the display is pretty awful, I expect they’ll upgrade it next year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The test is quoting bhp, (brake hp) at the crank, the only thing that we may not be considering is euro vs us spec. but yeah they feel anemic vs. riding the H2, we have 2 10R’s (white 2017’s) & 1 10RR in my MC, they need upper rev band in every gear, completely flat in the lower revs,,,we race constantly & it’s like a running joke w/ my mates, I leave them like chained to a stump.

I owned the grandad to the 10R in 1986 w/ the 1000R, then a 2004 10R.

This is what the guys on the 10R board are posting for their 10R’s, it seems generally accepted that on avg., there’s some slightly higher, some lower but most of the guys there expect ballpark approx. 170-180rwhp stock & 180-190 flashed, pipe, filter etc.
https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/201...re-334874.html

https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/zx1...lt-345337.html

https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/201...re-334874.html

https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/201...un-319186.html

Interesting comments from Brock here on that dyno test where the 10R posted STD 177,179, 181 (w/ 55 degrees, 9% humidity) post#13 &#18 but on the R1, the guy at post #17 gets it:
https://www.zx-10r.net/forum/f23/bro...-305434-2.html

A 650 dyno shootout w/ the 10R, R1, etc. Results, bikes are flashed except the Aprilia:

2016 H2 - 236HP
2017 Panigale - 191HP
2016 S1000RR - 190HP
2016 ZX-10R - 180HP
2016 RSV4-RF - 179HP
2015 R1M - 179HP
2016 EBR 1190RX - 155HP

https://youtu.be/oaur8pBjcGc

Last edited by STRADALE; 08-21-2018 at 05:15 PM.
STRADALE is offline  
post #218 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 1,191
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Garage
(Thread Starter)
Here is an excerpt from the email from Kawasaki ". Traction control will certainly reduce the wheelie effect as well. Of course a dyno check of his horsepower would tell us immediately if there was any issue with power loss and at sea level it should probably be in the region of 170 - 175hp at the wheel in stock form."


I'm sorry I was wrong about the HP number I remember the 175 not the 170. I call BS
TedG is online now  
post #219 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 05:33 PM
Senior Member
 
STRADALE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 1,179
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedG View Post
Here is an excerpt from the email from Kawasaki ". Traction control will certainly reduce the wheelie effect as well. Of course a dyno check of his horsepower would tell us immediately if there was any issue with power loss and at sea level it should probably be in the region of 170 - 175hp at the wheel in stock form."


I'm sorry I was wrong about the HP number I remember the 175 not the 170. I call BS

BS is being kind. I’ve never seen a 170 or 175rwhp H2 & have saved at least 25 dyno charts. Someone who doesn’t have a clue about what these bikes are actually making probably just took the Kawi 200bhp claim & decided to minus 15% driveline loss = exactly 170rwhp & minus 12% = 176rwhp. If so there’s a couple of issues, 15% is probably very high for the loss, you used to hear 15% sometimes but not on these bikes & everyone knows Kawi sandbagged the 200 BHP #, probably just to keep Big Govt off their backs.

Last edited by STRADALE; 08-21-2018 at 05:35 PM.
STRADALE is offline  
post #220 of 222 Old 08-21-2018, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 1,191
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Garage
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRADALE View Post
BS is being kind. Iíve never seen a 170 or 175rwhp H2 & have saved at least 25 dyno charts. Someone who doesnít have a clue about what these bikes are actually making probably just took the Kawi 200bhp claim & decided to minus 15% driveline loss = exactly 170rwhp & minus 12% = 176rwhp. If so thereís a couple of issues, 15% is probably very high for the loss, you used to hear 15% sometimes but not on these bikes & everyone knows Kawi sandbagged the 200 BHP #, probably just to keep Big Govt off their backs.
Now you see why I want the district rep to ride it. I could bring a dyno chart with a weak tit 170hp and have them say "What is my problem?", and we know good and well that is unacceptable So I want to be armed with info, have him ride it and show that it is earthbound for the most part, which in turn would cause a chain of events to figure out the issue.



It could be nothing more than the assisted clutch not getting the tension, although I'm pretty sure that is not it, I am very sensitive to slipping clutches.

Maybe a BOV that doesn't seal quickly in the transition between open and close and that wouldn't show up in a dyno run.
Maybe a defective or improperly aligned IMU, I need a to see a 2018 service manual to check that.


What bugs me is why don't I ever see the TC come on if the TC is intervening, much less ever?
TedG is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome