Aftermarket SC bolts issue - fix ? - Page 7 - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
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post #61 of 88 Old 12-02-2017, 03:22 PM
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They are an uncommon size,cutting hob has to be custom made
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post #62 of 88 Old 12-02-2017, 06:21 PM
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@kawah2 : Did you get a chance to see if he was impressed with the nylon 3D-printed "carbon look" Bear parts??

Just kidding. I'm being bad. I was happy with my ZX-12R velocity stacks. But it does seem, from outcomes, that this work doesn't earn 4 stars.
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post #63 of 88 Old 12-02-2017, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbo329 View Post
"exaserbates the problem of poor fitment" is what I said. I did not say it was the cause.


Jeez! Do you even read bruh?

You too NOLA.
Hey I'm still trying to figure out how leaning the bike over is doing anything to that bolt if installed properly. I don't lean my bike over like you do and it seems we both had ours last about the same amount of time. So I doubt leaning the bike over has any effect on that bolt backing out of breaking.

2016 H2- Motorwork,Brocks Full Slashcut System,Stage 3 Gears,YagerWerx Intercooler,Rotox Boost Wheels,Shorai Lithium Battery,Adams Swingarm,.....etc etc etc
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post #64 of 88 Old 12-02-2017, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OzBooster View Post
I had several sets if gears made when the price was $2500, couldnt bring myself to pay that ,They fit like factory, i still think they have the potential to move, any movement on the spline will walk a bolt out or break it eventually,
Actually thinking of getting Bear gears for a current build as the new ones look like a tight fit rather than getting my centre altered
Pfitzner Performance Gearbox - Surpassing Limitations

I was referred to these guys.
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post #65 of 88 Old 12-02-2017, 07:37 PM
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Garage
Well after looking at some pictures of the actual bolts, I really am wondering what the people that have changed them are using for a torque wrench? That bolt will stretch and weaken.It is hollow and has a hole drilled in it. There is not much left of it. Incorrectly torqued it will fail. Also the bolt comes with that red locking agent bonded to the bolt, that stuff works. That bolt has oil pumped through it and the improper locking agent will wash away.
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post #66 of 88 Old 12-02-2017, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kawah2 View Post
Mine were localish to me and recommended as they also do transmission gears for superbikes etc and would do small batch sizes without costing too much

Try sending them a sample gear and chain and ask for a quote , took me a few tries to find someone willing to do it due to the one off nature and uncommon size teeth
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post #67 of 88 Old 12-02-2017, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Mine were localish to me and recommended as they also do transmission gears for superbikes etc and would do small batch sizes without costing too much

Try sending them a sample gear and chain and ask for a quote , took me a few tries to find someone willing to do it due to the one off nature and uncommon size teeth
I was planning on buying a new stock SC shaft, SC sprocket and aftermarket SC sprocket so they could measure the tolerances of what Kawasaki designed and what we now have via Bear racing and how they differ.

From a knowledge standpoint i would really like to know!

I don't like the "not knowing" of why something failed.
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post #68 of 88 Old 12-03-2017, 02:41 AM
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I have similar shaft and sprocket setups in machinery here , one keeps on breaking the bolts i use, doesnt matter what standard of bolt , its worn spline rocks and walks the bolt until it either loosens enough to allow the movement or it breaks the bolt, i gave up and let it float , eventually i will have to replace the shaft and sprocket

Have you seen the current bear sprockets are a tap on fit,
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post #69 of 88 Old 12-03-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawiguy454 View Post
The rotating mass of the turbine spinning at ~150,000 rpm on a shaft is one heck of a gyro. So as the bike pivots along its axis where the tires meet the ground (Think Knee Dragging) this gyro is generating massive torsional forces onto the shaft as we force it thru an arc as the bike moves from side to side.

With the forces at play if we viewed it in action with ultra high speed cameras we would observe the turbine and shaft to be squirming around like a spaghetti noodle and the turbine blades flapping like a plastic pinwheel. Bottom line being that although we see metal as something very hard the forces in there make it a very violent place. Add in additional heat due to pressure over-spinning it and it may just be over the edge of its design metallurgically.
But it is the bolt for the lower sprocket that is coming out, not a bolt at the turbine or any other problem at the compressor.

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The deformations occurring throughout will cause the bolts to come apart no matter what you do.

The second less obvious possibility is the gearing change itself, All mechanical gears create vibrations. These vibrations are mathematical in nature and must be taken into account as the spinning parts are already under huge stress. Changing the ratios may very well create some destructive harmonic forces within the assembly. I'm sure the engineers had all this accounted for in the design.
It's certainly a fact that overgearing increases loads on the sprockets if operation is identical in terms of engine rpm, though of course up to about 180 you don't need to be at the limits of rpm or anything like to have all the torque the front wheel (wheelie) and rear tire can handle, so you don't have to have that last 10-15% of possible rpm or even close to it. Some will shift late regardless, some will shift earlier. If earlier, then where's the extra stress?

In practice, one guy without gears and a derestricted bike may average 10-15% more rpm than another guy with a derestricted bike and the gears -- Turbo329 for example doesn't seem to particularly wind his bike out when no need to do so, at least in his videos, while some like to keep the engine singing above 8000 all the time, even above 10,000 most of the time in spirited riding. So I am not convinced that in all cases the compressor spins faster for a given rider and Bear gears (sprockets) than with another rider on a H2R or an unrestricted bike with stock sprockets, which don't seem to have the problem.

Slop in earlier gears: seems to be a fact and certainly a contributor. Using a different thread locker than Kawasaki uses with possible difference in resistance to oil seems another possible cause. At least the part of using a different thread locker is a fact in some cases. Overtorquing, also possible in some cases. As opinion, a thread locker requiring particularly high force to break when intact really should not be needed, rather a thread locker is needed that retains its strength in these conditions. Slop in current gears? Seems unknown if that's still a contributor if instead the cause might be different thread locker washing out.

The fact that Bear seems to think a different bolt is required (for which they omit the oil passage Kawasaki determined was worth providing) suggests to me they are not confident in their new sprockets with stock bolt, though -- or they don't really know what's happening. Not confidence-inspiring.

Last edited by trenace; 12-03-2017 at 01:42 PM.
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post #70 of 88 Old 12-03-2017, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OzBooster View Post
I have similar shaft and sprocket setups in machinery here , one keeps on breaking the bolts i use, doesnt matter what standard of bolt , its worn spline rocks and walks the bolt until it either loosens enough to allow the movement or it breaks the bolt, i gave up and let it float , eventually i will have to replace the shaft and sprocket

Have you seen the current bear sprockets are a tap on fit,
When were these "tap on fit current sprockets" released?

Date please.
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