New Drag and Land Speed Sumps - Page 2 - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
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post #11 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 02:56 AM
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Even in a drag race situation how are you going get rid of the oil in the gearbox that is sucking HP? Cams are not so bad as long as there are large drain holes below the inlets. Heat is not a problem at low thermal cycles as the oil will not reach thermal equilibria where the heat has to be dealt with.



There was a guy killed at the Isle of Mann because his bike bottomed out and ripped the sump plug out. So I am not against modified sumps but the question is 'what are you trying to achieve?'
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post #12 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 03:50 AM
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That's the thing, for normal road use, I can see it making little to no difference to your oil temperature, but I'd be feeling now I've got 25% more oil, my engines 25% better protected hence reliable! Lol.
Perhaps if you were to bolt on the bigger sump but use the standard quantity of oil it might make a difference too! Lol.
I can see the shallow sump being of use to the serious useage chaps though.
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post #13 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 06:57 AM
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Most of the mods done to H2's are a feel good factor for owners without understanding what they are doing. The Extra HP I get with the Austin Racing muffler is insignificant but there is a feel good factor listening to the blipper with the quick shifter. Wish I could have it without the constant roar under throttle.


Even race mechanics don't understand thermodynamics. Don't get me started on intercoolers as currently designed for the H2. If you have the slightest knowledge of thermodynamics then work out the cubic mass of intake airflow, the temperature your trying to drop from the ambient air verses the compressed air temperature at that velocity and the surface area of aluminium required to do the job. The current intercooler specs don't ad up to basic physics or am I missing something. Hint, 53 gallons of air per second or x 4 = 212 litres.
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post #14 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 09:30 AM
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Sounds interesting. I for one would appreciate, in layman's terms, an explanation re: the current crop of aftermarket intercoolers. Some folks swear by them with recorded comparison figures and media to verify. I thought an i/c was an absolute essential lsr and dragging etc. Is your point that the i/c, s you can by are not that efficient in fact or am I misunderstanding?
Long been debating whether or not to buy one.
The gent in the States i/c gets plenty of plaudits for sure. As does the EC model.
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post #15 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 03:58 PM
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Most of the mods done to H2's are a feel good factor for owners without understanding what they are doing. The Extra HP I get with the Austin Racing muffler is insignificant but there is a feel good factor listening to the blipper with the quick shifter. Wish I could have it without the constant roar under throttle.


Even race mechanics don't understand thermodynamics. Don't get me started on intercoolers as currently designed for the H2. If you have the slightest knowledge of thermodynamics then work out the cubic mass of intake airflow, the temperature your trying to drop from the ambient air verses the compressed air temperature at that velocity and the surface area of aluminium required to do the job. The current intercooler specs don't ad up to basic physics or am I missing something. Hint, 53 gallons of air per second or x 4 = 212 litres.
You are working with what you got right now. The intercooler works, and does what it needs to do. If you want to design a more efficient one, have at er. At least there is option that allows for more cooling, and it 100% works for both street use and racing use.
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post #16 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 05:21 PM
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Thermal energy is what you are trying to remove. Once the oil is up to temperature you need to remove the heat. You have to size the oil cooler to accept the extra flow of a bigger oil pump to have long term advantage. It's like just putting in a bigger battery that holds more charge, once its up to the limit it stays there unless you can get rid of it. If it is a smaller sump surface from which heat can radiate then it can make the problem worse. Unless the other parts oil system are modified then there may be problems. The oil pump bypasses at high rpm, return oil needs to get back to the sump quickly, there have been other Kawasaki big engines that have been modified to do this.



To be effective the oil pump needs to have the same percentage of increased flow as the increased oil capacity and if the surface area of the sump has been decreased then the oil cooler has to be re-sized to take the extra oil volume per minute as well as the lost surface area of the sump. Oil starvation has often been traced to lack of sufficient drainage from the cam and gearbox area.



Drag racing has it's own issues like oil moving away from the pickup, oil pooling in the rear of the cams and gearbox. Flooding the sump is a fix but can suck hp. Somewhere where the oil is pooling under high 'g's' is sucking hp (gearbox) so more oil can make it worse, you must make an efficient return path.



The only benefit to the average guy would be the contaminants are more diluted.

"Oil starvation has often been traced to lack of sufficient drainage from the cam and gearbox area".
"Drag racing has it's own issues like oil moving away from the pickup, oil pooling in the rear of the cams and gearbox. Flooding the sump is a fix but can suck hp. Somewhere where the oil is pooling under high 'g's' is sucking hp (gearbox) so more oil can make it worse, you must make an efficient return path."

This i agree with , the rest i am not so sure of , esp as the EC pan does not include a pump , internal oil flows etc are not changed,
the pan may have greater area to dissapate oil heat but the oil cooler and transfer of heat to the coolant is where most of the temp control happens .

Advantages of it to the streetbike , minimal if any

Advantages to the drag or landspeed racer ,Shallow pan so you can lower the bike more Or deeper pan for outright capacity
Better oil control for the situation keeping the oil at the pickup ,
Easy access internally to check or clean the oil pickup (nothing kills a motor quicker than clutch debris blocking the pickup)
Easy access screen in the pickup
The concept is not new , there are similar pans available for other bikes
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post #17 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 05:57 PM
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The intercooler will be working, there will be a temperature drop but there is no way you can fit an efficient intercooler under that tank. Any cooling is better than none.
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post #18 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 09:36 PM
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The intercooler will be working, there will be a temperature drop but there is no way you can fit an efficient intercooler under that tank. Any cooling is better than none.
Exactly, so why bother with the "don't get me started" crap. Someone at least developed something for the rest of us, and it works.

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post #19 of 20 Old 06-20-2019, 11:15 PM
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Kind of works. The rule of thumb is you need about 3L of volume per 100hp so that there is less than 1psi of pressure drop across the intercooler. Has anybody measured the temperature change of the intercooler body under sustained throttle and how the temperature drop across it gets less and less? My guess is that thermal cycling of the intercooler is why it works. Worth knowing all these things because it's the only way to make it better through versions.
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post #20 of 20 Old 06-21-2019, 01:04 AM
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Rick are you comparing air to air coolers with Water to air coolers
The bike coolers are not trying to push through internal tubes
biggest problem is actually punching the air at high velocity through a small section of the core in line with the entry.
with very little space to spread the airflow and such a free flowing core , its not easy to get good flow across the whole core
but the cores used on the EC coolers are very capable of the current demands
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