Mea Culpa - Top End Damage! - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Mea Culpa - Top End Damage!

As the title infers, I have to cop this one...

Didn't even need to post this (and save online embarrassment!), but may be a good lesson/early catch for some others - or not.

Around early/mid 2019 I put H2R cams in my 2015 H2. Set the cams up per H2R manual specs. (put the cam gear/wheels on myself) set at 11 ft/lbs with non-permanent loctite as instructed. Was so worried about the wheels coming loose I rechecked the torque setting 4 times for each bolt on both cams!

Well, after months of Woolich tuning which included datalogging on track, a 4 hour dyno tuning session to get the woolich tune just right. Joel (from Woolich) got 264 rwhp and 134 nm torque at a "safe" 11.8:1 AFR. Said it was a low reading dyno of those around here. Also said he could easily get 290+ hp if tuned more aggressively! These are bragging numbers only for sure.

In early December 2019 I did a 3 day track ride at Phillip Island, the bike was performing absolutely beautifully. Late on the second day I was at the end of the straight, rolling down from 6th to 5th, and tipping into turn 1 (right hander). Bike suddenly dies down, thought I'd hit the kill switch! Short version is the inlet cam wheel bolts had backed out! And no, I didn't hear any tell tale noises beforehand - I ride with ear plugs in, plus the TT3 exhaust absolutely howls at top revs.

Fast forward to now; bike is in shop, engine out, 6 valves buggered, but only very slight damage to head/valve seats. Can be fixed by specialist re-conditioner. Various other parts on order to complete rebuild. Estimated cost at this stage (not warranty obviously) is AU $7,500. This includes mechanic time, a new head would cost me an extra $2-$3K ontop, but not needed.

I had run the bike on 3 track days, hours onroad, 4 hours dyno etc., and it goes on track! I expect a bit of rubbishing online, but nothing will match the disappointment and monetary expense I have! I still intend on track riding the bike, it's the best place around here to let it stretch it's legs and use it's power.

Decisions were made...Lessons were learnt...

Don.
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 02:55 AM
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Been there done that! Lesson learnt, any mods to moving parts of a modified engine should be checked after each (abusive) run to make sure all is within specifications including valve clearances, it's the knowledge gained through this checking that helps you push it to the limits and gives you an advantage over others. Just checked the Service Manual, 11 ft/lbs is not much is it?
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 07:57 AM
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Is it worth using new bolts for the rebuild Don?

Just a thought since other components on the h2 are single use only, such as the nuts for the rear sprocket. Thread stretch on these tiny bolts can make an advised torque setting inadequate.

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Yes 11 ft/lb doesn't seem much!

Bob, I think you're right with that, should have used new bolts.

It'll be all new parts on rebuild & done by head mechanic.

I'm not new to doing some work on bikes over the years, but have been caught out lacking on this occasion.

Last edited by H2015; 01-25-2020 at 08:18 AM.
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 02:20 PM
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That price seems outrageous for just head damage. Was there any bottom end damage?

2016 Ninja H2 - Worlds Quickest and Fastest. 1/4 - 7.901 at 181mph - 233.6mph in 1 mile. CMP Built Motor, Brocks Performance Stage 2 Package, MC Cycle works Intercooler, Slash-Cut Exhaust, DNA Filter, PC5, Brocks Lowering Links, Brocks Front Strap Kit, BST Rim, Adams Performance Swingarm, Zero Gravity Corsa Windscreen, Evotech Radiator Guard, R&G Undertail
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-25-2020, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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No bottom end damage, the cost includes hours spent on dismantling, locating damage, repairs, re-installation. Prices in Aust. for most motorcycle related parts/work does seem to be more expensive than overseas - U.S. in particular. I guess being an island nation, low volume units and far from most places makes us hostage to company pricing etc. I would think New Zealand is similar to Aust.? Rick150 would know.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-27-2020, 11:09 PM
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^I guess so, but all the kawi parts in North America come from Japan too. I am in Canada, similar exchange rate to the Australian dollar, and man I cant see how it's costing that much. A new head is like 1300 Canadian, and you should be able to use several parts still from your old head damaged head. Even if they replaced every valve, spring, buckets, cams etc etc, it shouldnt be that high. I might consider looking at another shop. They can pull the head out with the motor in the bike.

2016 Ninja H2 - Worlds Quickest and Fastest. 1/4 - 7.901 at 181mph - 233.6mph in 1 mile. CMP Built Motor, Brocks Performance Stage 2 Package, MC Cycle works Intercooler, Slash-Cut Exhaust, DNA Filter, PC5, Brocks Lowering Links, Brocks Front Strap Kit, BST Rim, Adams Performance Swingarm, Zero Gravity Corsa Windscreen, Evotech Radiator Guard, R&G Undertail
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-28-2020, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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Had a look at the bike a week ago in the shop, just a rolling frame with wheels at the moment!

You'd be surprised (as you are I guess!) at the mark up on bike parts here just because they can.

In South Australia there is only one officially recognised Kawasaki H2 dealer with their H2 trained mechanic (not saying other mechanics can't do the same job). Our motorcycle sales volume is just too low, even compared to interstate, and no real competition.

It is what it is, and I just have to suck it up and get on with it. I'm really missing the bike now, even though it's been pretty hot here this summer, I usually try to get rides in but haven't done so for several weeks now, my penance!
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-29-2020, 02:43 AM
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Yeh, soon as it is H2 the price goes up, same with my Porsche but can use VW parts that cross over. So when I want something for the H2 I search for cross over parts. The excuse for outrages service cost is that the mechanic had to go to an H2 training session. So I service it myself except the first one. So much for the training, had to use a big leverage tool to get the oil filter off!


Own an H2? You can afford it! (means ok to extract as much cash as they can).
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-29-2020, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick150 View Post
Yeh, soon as it is H2 the price goes up, same with my Porsche but can use VW parts that cross over. So when I want something for the H2 I search for cross over parts. The excuse for outrages service cost is that the mechanic had to go to an H2 training session. So I service it myself except the first one. So much for the training, had to use a big leverage tool to get the oil filter off!


Own an H2? You can afford it! (means ok to extract as much cash as they can).
With my car a few years ago, also a Porsche, I used a non-franchised Porsche specialist in Saltash, Cornwall. The car was out of warranty and I discovered Williams Crawford close to my home. I put the car in for a simple job at first as a kind of test and asked for their comments on the car. They passed with flying colours.

With my H2 I'm very lucky to have a really good dealer in the town. The owner is a personal friend which helps but they are very genuine and look after all their customers. The labour rate is what it is, no difference per-hour between an H2 service and a 125cc bike. Service items aren't too bad price-wise and I haven't had to buy any other bits yet apart from the throttle housing, which was broken by a scrutineer at an LSR meeting and the single-use rear sprocket nuts whenever I change the gearing. Can't complain.

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