Engine control braking - Page 3 - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-24-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by racer172 View Post
First time reading this thread, this ^ is correct. When we were doing our throttle mapping for better throttle control we went to KEBC LIGHT and I've had it there ever since. If you are a roadracer you want this setting on. If you are a straight-line guy and you like to "wack" your throttle and feel the kick of the supercharger then leave it off.
Noted.


I like the engine braking for the track though. I like it because it helps me scrub off big speed quickly and I like it on the corner entry because I can trail less brake to the apex.


It's a trade off. Personally, I just ride a gear higher to deal with the abruptness.
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post #22 of 34 Old 01-25-2017, 01:38 AM
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I've just left mine off, and have learnt how to control the abruptness however I think I might try it on and see how it feels....
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post #23 of 34 Old 04-20-2019, 05:08 PM
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I don't want to be a contrarian here when everyone seems to be in such great agreement especially waking up such an old thread.
But either my bike is wired backwards or you guys didn't really check the setting that carefully.
KEBC mode "Off" on my bike is normal engine breaking I would say, it feels like a normal 750cc high compression engine, the bike coasts a bit and you have to actively use the brakes for the next corner on back country roads.
KEBC mode "Light" is actually reasonably hard engine breaking and makes the throttle a bit blippy (on/off character).
I've theorised over this and I have a few theories, it's all irrelevant though and I recommend everyone that cares to try it out for themselves.
On my 2017 bike I left it a whole month in "Light" mode thinking that people here knew what they were talking about, setting it to "Off" made the H2 a whole new bike, I immediately found better confidence running it on curvy roads at a much increased pace as the throttle became much smother. Previously in the "Light" mode the bike would scrub off speed as soon as you let off the throttle.

If you can't tell the difference it doesn't matter to you. you're not going fast enough around and between corners for it to make a difference anyway.
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post #24 of 34 Old 04-21-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by andreas_nor View Post
I don't want to be a contrarian here when everyone seems to be in such great agreement especially waking up such an old thread.
But either my bike is wired backwards or you guys didn't really check the setting that carefully.
KEBC mode "Off" on my bike is normal engine breaking I would say, it feels like a normal 750cc high compression engine, the bike coasts a bit and you have to actively use the brakes for the next corner on back country roads.
KEBC mode "Light" is actually reasonably hard engine breaking and makes the throttle a bit blippy (on/off character).
I've theorised over this and I have a few theories, it's all irrelevant though and I recommend everyone that cares to try it out for themselves.
On my 2017 bike I left it a whole month in "Light" mode thinking that people here knew what they were talking about, setting it to "Off" made the H2 a whole new bike, I immediately found better confidence running it on curvy roads at a much increased pace as the throttle became much smother. Previously in the "Light" mode the bike would scrub off speed as soon as you let off the throttle.

If you can't tell the difference it doesn't matter to you. you're not going fast enough around and between corners for it to make a difference anyway.
When I set mine to light, I noticed that the engine braking was less harsh and on/off throttle was smoother. BUT it felt unnatural letting off for bailing into a corner, I couldn't get a consistent feel and I had to use the brakes earlier because it felt like I was coasting, which is backwards from what you are saying. I agree that normal is much better for tight, twisty roads, but the reason for me is because it doesn't coast, I get instant normal feeling braking.
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post #25 of 34 Old 04-21-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TedG View Post
When I set mine to light, I noticed that the engine braking was less harsh and on/off throttle was smoother. BUT it felt unnatural letting off for bailing into a corner, I couldn't get a consistent feel and I had to use the brakes earlier because it felt like I was coasting, which is backwards from what you are saying. I agree that normal is much better for tight, twisty roads, but the reason for me is because it doesn't coast, I get instant normal feeling braking.

Very interesting, I'm like super sure Off is coasting and Light is breaking fairly hard on mine, light is breaking so much that I'm suspecting it uses the exhaust valve (in the exhaust) to create engine breaking, it's just a theory though that I can't confirm unless I would compare it to a bike with the exhaust valve removed. I'll test it again tomorrow to make sure.

On another note; today I could not have cared less, the bike was too harsh to be pleasant, there was only RON 95 available at the station and I gave in and tried it, never again!
Throttle response went from pretty smooth to just plain harsh. I had no less power, it even felt like I had more, but mainly the engine was running so bloody harsh it wasn't funny, it was like sitting on a wild stallion. Tomorrow it's back to 98-99 RON.
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post #26 of 34 Old 04-21-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by andreas_nor View Post
Very interesting, I'm like super sure Off is coasting and Light is breaking fairly hard on mine, light is breaking so much that I'm suspecting it uses the exhaust valve (in the exhaust) to create engine breaking, it's just a theory though that I can't confirm unless I would compare it to a bike with the exhaust valve removed. I'll test it again tomorrow to make sure.

On another note; today I could not have cared less, the bike was too harsh to be pleasant, there was only RON 95 available at the station and I gave in and tried it, never again!
Throttle response went from pretty smooth to just plain harsh. I had no less power, it even felt like I had more, but mainly the engine was running so bloody harsh it wasn't funny, it was like sitting on a wild stallion. Tomorrow it's back to 98-99 RON.
Actually the KEBC is controlled by the throttle valves. I can adjust the KEBC throttle positions with my Wollich software. It is not just shutting off the throttle, it effects the entire range of RPMs and throttle positions. And remember octane is meant to slow and even out the burn. Less octane usually yields more power, but can introduce pre ignition, knock sensors retard the timing (indirectly) and then cause less power at higher RPMs. But at low revs, lower octane gives you more power. Also I have disconnected my exhaust valve. It made it more consistent accelerating. Sometimes if felt lethargic in it's response to throttle opening.

Last edited by TedG; 04-21-2019 at 02:17 PM.
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post #27 of 34 Old 04-22-2019, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TedG View Post
Actually the KEBC is controlled by the throttle valves. I can adjust the KEBC throttle positions with my Wollich software. It is not just shutting off the throttle, it effects the entire range of RPMs and throttle positions. And remember octane is meant to slow and even out the burn. Less octane usually yields more power, but can introduce pre ignition, knock sensors retard the timing (indirectly) and then cause less power at higher RPMs. But at low revs, lower octane gives you more power. Also I have disconnected my exhaust valve. It made it more consistent accelerating. Sometimes if felt lethargic in it's response to throttle opening.

OK, I've been out testing today.
I tried to count the deceleration between modes and the count was the same, it's confusing as the feeling is so different, more so the more actively I drive.
What is huge though is the difference between the throttle response in Light mode which is awful, twitchy and abrupt (off/on/off/on and a very faint in between that can be achieved though not consistently) as opposed to the Off mode which is much less abrupt and much more handleable (though not perfect), anybody disagreeing with this?
I drive the bike so much faster and with more confidence in the Off mode that I have to brake harder before the next corner as my speed is much greater.
Now this is not what I see you guys saying on here for the most which I find remarkable.

I didn't turn the bike off in between the changes, I just stopped and put it in neutral before I changed the mode. What perplexed me was that I perceived the change between modes more gradual after the change than a direct change most of the times and it appeared I had to drive for a bit before the settings change had reached full maturity.
First time I did the change of modes (a couple days ago) it upset the quick shifter for the first few gear changes or so before the bike learnt the change and it gradually wore off (yeah you read it right that's what I said "learnt"), so either I've gone absolutely bonkers or I'm saying I've got the feeling that rather than just a set of fixed parameters to follow with each settings change the bike is equipped to sense and adjust to changing conditions on the fly.

Everything mentioned above is just my speculations and perceived feeling of my bike -a 2017 H2 with IMU that has only a Yoshi slip on and dyno fuel remap with unrestricted throttle created on my behalf by the Kawasaki retailer and a super-bike tuning professional- and is not in any way backed up by facts and should be regarded as such.
The bike achieved 245 wheel bhp while the original map and yoshi can created 210 wheel bhp so likely a high reading dyno. I don't think they used an external map since the Kawasaki dealership owner said they have the kit to make any changes they want, I didn't distrust him since his dealership rebuilt and registered an H2R for the street and he claimed they had intricate knowledge of these bikes.

Last edited by andreas_nor; 04-22-2019 at 11:32 AM.
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post #28 of 34 Old 04-22-2019, 04:18 PM
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rode my bike once with it on i.e more engine brake and i never made it into 6th gear i immediately pulled over and turned all engine braking off or switched to light again. Anyone who rides this bike with engine braking on should not own one as they are not riding the frickin wheels off it! 🤣🤣
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post #29 of 34 Old 04-22-2019, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreas_nor View Post
OK, I've been out testing today.
I tried to count the deceleration between modes and the count was the same, it's confusing as the feeling is so different, more so the more actively I drive.
What is huge though is the difference between the throttle response in Light mode which is awful, twitchy and abrupt (off/on/off/on and a very faint in between that can be achieved though not consistently) as opposed to the Off mode which is much less abrupt and much more handleable (though not perfect), anybody disagreeing with this?
I drive the bike so much faster and with more confidence in the Off mode that I have to brake harder before the next corner as my speed is much greater.
Now this is not what I see you guys saying on here for the most which I find remarkable.

I didn't turn the bike off in between the changes, I just stopped and put it in neutral before I changed the mode. What perplexed me was that I perceived the change between modes more gradual after the change than a direct change most of the times and it appeared I had to drive for a bit before the settings change had reached full maturity.
First time I did the change of modes (a couple days ago) it upset the quick shifter for the first few gear changes or so before the bike learnt the change and it gradually wore off (yeah you read it right that's what I said "learnt"), so either I've gone absolutely bonkers or I'm saying I've got the feeling that rather than just a set of fixed parameters to follow with each settings change the bike is equipped to sense and adjust to changing conditions on the fly.

Everything mentioned above is just my speculations and perceived feeling of my bike -a 2017 H2 with IMU that has only a Yoshi slip on and dyno fuel remap with unrestricted throttle created on my behalf by the Kawasaki retailer and a super-bike tuning professional- and is not in any way backed up by facts and should be regarded as such.
The bike achieved 245 wheel bhp while the original map and yoshi can created 210 wheel bhp so likely a high reading dyno. I don't think they used an external map since the Kawasaki dealership owner said they have the kit to make any changes they want, I didn't distrust him since his dealership rebuilt and registered an H2R for the street and he claimed they had intricate knowledge of these bikes.
Well here is the actual mapping of a 2018 KEBC map. When the map is turned off the entire table is filled with 0s. The numbers in the cells seem to represent the % of actual throttle plate opening you get for a particular % of actual throttle position.These are just little nudges.
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post #30 of 34 Old 04-22-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Brianmurphy84 View Post
rode my bike once with it on i.e more engine brake and i never made it into 6th gear i immediately pulled over and turned all engine braking off or switched to light again. Anyone who rides this bike with engine braking on should not own one as they are not riding the frickin wheels off it! 🤣🤣

Firstly you are agreeing that KEBC "light" is smallest or less intrusive engine breaking as per most agree

Secondly, to say folk who ride with more engine breaking should not own one is bit of a silly statement. Most world class riders use engine breaking as a tool to go faster combined with precise throttle control

Rob

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