Decel Pop - Page 2 - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 20 Old 06-29-2016, 10:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
I have ECU Unleashed tune, just ECU, no power commander, Dyno shows bike is pig rich in the upper rev range, slow deceleration or cutting the throttle results in popping and sometimes a flame, which doesn't bother me because if the engine runs lean that is not good. Engine Braking also set as "light".


Rhody...

Last edited by rhody; 06-29-2016 at 11:00 AM.
rhody is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 20 Old 06-30-2016, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Newton, NH
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
This bike had a wicked surge at part throttle cruise between 2000 and 4000 rpm. Remapped on a Dyno (Eddy current unit with ECM AFR 1500's) to 13:1 @ those rpm points from 2% to 15% throttle (it was at 10.8:1). Figured that was pretty rich for cruise, but maybe it needs to be richer. I've built a set of two new maps that will drop that to 12.5 to 1 and 12.0 to 1 to see if that helps.

I will let you know what happens.

In the mean time, has anyone else determined that this bike HAS to have a certain AFR at cruise for reasonable EGT's and eliminate decel pop?

Glad to see I'm not alone. LOL

Last edited by cwalker2; 07-01-2016 at 11:14 PM.
cwalker2 is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 07-06-2016, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Newton, NH
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Update:

Last night we did the change. The bike originally ran poorly at part throttle (2 -20% between 2K and 4500 rpm). Lots of surging displayed as very rich mixtures in that TP & RPM range. We cut the fueling back to run at ~ 13.2:1 in those areas. Much smoother and very rideable and wants to accelerate at a touch of the throttle. The problem with the popping began there. String of firecrackers noise coming from the pipe during decel.

We originally addressed it by adding 8% fuel @ 0% TP from 6000 down to 2000 rpm. Seemed better, but we continued to experiment. We settled on 8% from 6k down to 4k and 11%from 4K to 2K. 15% fueling at 0% throttle seemed to make it go back to a worse pop condition so we went back to the 11%. If you've tuned out decel pop on the past, you know the routine, so there's no need to give the crazy details of how we arrived at these numbers. There was still a hint of popping but it was much better.

Riding on hot days under real conditions showed that it was still there. Reduced, but still present and more annoyingly, there was a loud pop or sometimes a double-tap at 3500 rpm. Oh, what to do?

Last night we went with the theory of cooling the exhaust/drowning the pop with richer mixtures. So we added 4% and 8% to previously tuned cruising and back road riding throttle positions. We had success. The decel pop became a low toned growl or burble. You have to hear it coming from that slash cut to really understand it, but the sound is unusual and kind of cool to be honest. You know there's something different pulling up next to you. Unfortunately there was still a bang or double tap at 3500 rpm. I took the bike out on the road (no dyno necessary for what we were doing now) and found that the pop rpm was very repeatable. It happened at the same rpm regardless of prior throttle position. Meaning you could be decelerating from a large throttle position - high rpm run up, or just decel turning into a right hander and dropping one gear from small throttle. Oddly it seemed worse in 3rd gear so most of the testing was done at that gear/rpm combo.

The final stab was to throw fuel right at that rpm point. We added 20% more fuel at 0% throttle from 4k down to 3500. The pop and double tap disappeared. It only showed up once during the test ride as opposed to every time we swept through that rpm range at zero % throttle. Keeping fingers crossed, but cautiously optimistic that we've arrived at good rideability and minimal noise.

Thank you to all those who offered thoughts and tips. I figured I would share back for anyone who has similar situations.

Last edited by cwalker2; 07-06-2016 at 12:52 PM.
cwalker2 is offline  
 
post #14 of 20 Old 07-06-2016, 05:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Kawiguy454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
The popping is quite possibly due to air reversion where at a specific RPM between pulses air enters the can and the unburned fuel ignites. On my ZX14 the popping came with 3 foot flames that look really cool at night so popping doesn't bother me. When I get a full system on this bike I look forward to fire breathing dragon :-)

Keep in mind all the extra fuel you add to get rid of the popping goes thru the engine largely unburned and can wash the oil down the cylinder walls and may contaminate the oil as well. I would tune it just run well. On the 14 I think 8-10 at 0% throttle was about as good as it got to stop the popping.

Probably not likely on a new bike but the PAIR system can leak too. On the C14 forum there was discussion about the PAIR passages under the valve cover that can have O-rings leak. If you pull the cover you may want to plug the passages while you're in there. Here's a link to the guys solution. ExpensiveLightweightStuff.com

Hond Trail 70 - Hond 125xl
2 x Yama RD350's
Yama IT465 - Yam Raptor 700
Kawi Z550
Suz Bandit 1200
Yama FZ1
Kawi ZX14
Kawi Concours 14
Kawi H2
Kawiguy454 is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 07-07-2016, 02:45 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
FWIW, just completed my Brock's Stage 2 install and went on a 40 mile ride. I had absolutely zero pops, backfires, double taps, or whatever you want to call them. I'm at about 1200 ft above sea level and the temp was around 100 F tonight. Humidity index was 26%.
u235rh is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 07-07-2016, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Newton, NH
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by u235rh View Post
FWIW, just completed my Brock's Stage 2 install and went on a 40 mile ride. I had absolutely zero pops, backfires, double taps, or whatever you want to call them. I'm at about 1200 ft above sea level and the temp was around 100 F tonight. Humidity index was 26%.
What pipe are you running with your system?

Have you seen what your AFR is while operating?

This one didn't pop when installed, but was running in the 10:1 to 11:1 range. It was so over fueled at part throttle it surged badly. Leaning out to the 13:1 area at cruise caused all the noise. It's running the big open slash cut.

Of course we are at sea level. Not I expect it to make a difference, but FWIW.
cwalker2 is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 07-07-2016, 06:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwalker2 View Post
What pipe are you running with your system?

Have you seen what your AFR is while operating?

This one didn't pop when installed, but was running in the 10:1 to 11:1 range. It was so over fueled at part throttle it surged badly. Leaning out to the 13:1 area at cruise caused all the noise. It's running the big open slash cut.

Of course we are at sea level. Not I expect it to make a difference, but FWIW.
I'm running the Alien Head. It's a little amazing to me that it would be that rich. My calibrated nose wouldn't lead me to believe it is that rich. My clothes don't stink when I'm through with a ride. Not very conclusive, I know.

I don't feel any surging at part throttle. For reference, I had a R1150R Rockster back in 2004 if that means anything to you. That particular boxer engine was notorious for surging so I know what it feels like.

I did nearly 200 miles today. Most of it was between 70 and 80 mph with the requisite blast here and there and I calculated 28 mpg. When it was all stock with similar riding, I was barely getting into the 30 mpg range if I remember correctly.

Mine feels great and the mileage for my riding doesn't seem any less than I would expect out of this monster. I have the "street map" and it seems Brock got it set pretty well. I hope you can get yours sorted!
u235rh is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 11-16-2016, 08:32 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Guys, forgive my ignorance, I'm looking at purchasing the Brock reflash, power commander & road map keeping the standard Akra slip on supplied to all bikes in the UK. Anyone have any idea if I will suffer from the deceleration pop with this set up? I had it on my ZX14 and it annoyed me after a while so trying to work out if it will affect the H2 given that the PAIR valve is disabled via the ecu flash?
Thanks
Lamf1969 is online now  
post #19 of 20 Old 11-16-2016, 04:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Kawiguy454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
IMO if you keep the stock catalytic converter and the PAIR is disabled you may not get enough oxygen fed into the cat to fully burn the exhaust gasses inside. Superhot unburned gasses getting past the cat may not be so good for the muffler when it finds a little air.

Hond Trail 70 - Hond 125xl
2 x Yama RD350's
Yama IT465 - Yam Raptor 700
Kawi Z550
Suz Bandit 1200
Yama FZ1
Kawi ZX14
Kawi Concours 14
Kawi H2
Kawiguy454 is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 11-16-2016, 04:12 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Interesting & thanks for the reply. I've just been looking on Brock's site it lets you select reflash for slip on or full system so i was kind of hoping the cat situation would be factored in. Need to find someone on the forum that has gone down the route of this tune with the Akra...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Lamf1969 is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome