Kawasaki H2R 200-Mph Review - Kawasaki Ninja H2 Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 05-20-2016, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Kawasaki H2R 200-Mph Review

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Riding the fastest production motorcycle in the world!

Crouched down behind a wing-festooned carbon-fiber fairing about one-third of a mile down an Oregon airstrip, I shifted into fourth gear at wide-open throttle and was both thrilled and alarmed when the front wheel departed the tarmac. I stole a furtive glance at the speedometer and saw three mind-blowing digits unexpected while wheelying: 170.
Read more Kawasaki H2R 200-Mph Review at Motorcycle.com
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post #2 of 20 Old 05-20-2016, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Old story, just trying to get some H2/H2R "news" on the homepage

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post #3 of 20 Old 05-20-2016, 10:36 PM
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"The H2R is said to produce 115 lb-ft of torque all the way up at 12,500 rpm, just 1500 rpm below its claimed 310-pony horsepower peak. The conversion from crankshaft power to power generated at the tire on a rear-wheel dyno is typically a loss of about 10%, perhaps stretching to 12%. Taking 12% from 310 hp would translate into about 277 hp, but the H2R I was riding spat out 231 hp when tested on the MotoGP Werks Dynojet dyno we regularly use. Adding 12% to our raw number would take it up to just(!) 259 hp. We’ve seen other H2Rs register numbers in the 240 range.

So, the horsepower number is well into the double triple-digits, but it’s not quite as sick as what Kawi claims, so we wonder if Team Green’s engineers played it a bit safe by spec’ing an overly rich mixture after initially tuning leaner for maximum power. There was a strong smell of gas from the H2R during our dyno runs and the dyno testing performed by other tuners. This keeps intake-charge temperatures lower (remember, the H2/R doesn’t use an intercooler), thereby enabling operation without danger of detonation or internal parts ending up on the outside. Brock Davidson of Brock’s Performance describes the mixture as “incredibly rich,” somewhere near a 10:1 air/fuel ratio. Such a rich mixture comes at the expense of some peak power."

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post #4 of 20 Old 05-21-2016, 11:59 AM
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"The H2R is said to produce 115 lb-ft of torque all the way up at 12,500 rpm, just 1500 rpm below its claimed 310-pony horsepower peak. The conversion from crankshaft power to power generated at the tire on a rear-wheel dyno is typically a loss of about 10%, perhaps stretching to 12%. Taking 12% from 310 hp would translate into about 277 hp, but the H2R I was riding spat out 231 hp when tested on the MotoGP Werks Dynojet dyno we regularly use. Adding 12% to our raw number would take it up to just(!) 259 hp. We’ve seen other H2Rs register numbers in the 240 range.

So, the horsepower number is well into the double triple-digits, but it’s not quite as sick as what Kawi claims, so we wonder if Team Green’s engineers played it a bit safe by spec’ing an overly rich mixture after initially tuning leaner for maximum power. There was a strong smell of gas from the H2R during our dyno runs and the dyno testing performed by other tuners. This keeps intake-charge temperatures lower (remember, the H2/R doesn’t use an intercooler), thereby enabling operation without danger of detonation or internal parts ending up on the outside. Brock Davidson of Brock’s Performance describes the mixture as “incredibly rich,” somewhere near a 10:1 air/fuel ratio. Such a rich mixture comes at the expense of some peak power."

Dude you are REALLY stressing out over this H2 versus H2R which makes the most power comparison. Its in virtually every post you make, getting real old. You should take a hit of valium purchased from some Canadian Online pharmacy and let it go.

H2s are restricted, H2Rs are restricted. Few are going to leave either restricted and a derestricted H2R shits all over a derestricted H2. Let it go. Its just how Kawi build them.

I know you want to keep making the same old argument over and over and over about how a derestricted H2 beats a stock H2R. Who is going to leave a H2R restricted lol?
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post #5 of 20 Old 05-21-2016, 01:32 PM
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Dude you are REALLY stressing out over this H2 versus H2R which makes the most power comparison. Its in virtually every post you make, getting real old. You should take a hit of valium purchased from some Canadian Online pharmacy and let it go.

H2s are restricted, H2Rs are restricted. Few are going to leave either restricted and a derestricted H2R shits all over a derestricted H2. Let it go. Its just how Kawi build them.

I know you want to keep making the same old argument over and over and over about how a derestricted H2 beats a stock H2R. Who is going to leave a H2R restricted lol?

I wasn't the one that posted the article and I pasted what the article said because it's the actually first time I've heard a legitimate reason/mentioned (if all H2Rs are restricted) why that could be, sorry you missed the underlined point/didn't read the article. And I didn't realize people were in agreement that the H2R was restricted, it seemed like many disagreed.

"Who is going to leave an H2R restricted"? So you don't like the topic but would like to continue it, ok.....I would be willing to bet a large sum of money many more H2Rs will be kept in factory spec than reflashed. The subject & comparison that we were talking about was a stock H2R vs Stage II H2. But if you want to compare flashed vs flashed it's s not my place to say what or what topics should or shouldn't be discussed & I certainly wouldn't get angry at you if you'd like to do so.

Obviously it made you upset though, my apologies, honestly wasn't my intent.
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post #6 of 20 Old 05-21-2016, 04:29 PM
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I wasn't the one that posted the article and I pasted what the article said because it's the actually first time I've heard a legitimate reason/mentioned (if all H2Rs are restricted) why that could be, sorry you missed the underlined point/didn't read the article. And I didn't realize people were in agreement that the H2R was restricted, it seemed like many disagreed.

"Who is going to leave an H2R restricted"? So you don't like the topic but would like to continue it, ok.....I would be willing to bet a large sum of money many more H2Rs will be kept in factory spec than reflashed. The subject & comparison that we were talking about was a stock H2R vs Stage II H2. But if you want to compare flashed vs flashed it's s not my place to say what or what topics should or shouldn't be discussed & I certainly wouldn't get angry at you if you'd like to do so.

Obviously it made you upset though, my apologies, honestly wasn't my intent.
Who is upset,... me? Man in the mirror? YOU?

You just keep making the same argument over and over and over. Now your trying to make the argument your H2 is better than an H2R under the assumption most H2R owners "wont" flash their bikes lol. That's almost like performing a "mind F#ck" on yourself lol. I guess if that makes you feel better about the bike in your garage, Roll D@mn Tide!

The H2 unrestricted will NEVER make the same power or come close to making the same power as an UNrestricted H2R will.

I don't see what your struggling with about that. It seems like it is almost ruining your life as you post about it 24/7 non stop around the clock like your looking for validation from others to give you peace in life.

Let it go dude, its all good.

The H2 Unrestricted is a bomb, the H2R UNrestriced is an Atomic bomb!!!

It is what it is, blame Kawasaki.
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-21-2016, 06:31 PM
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Who is upset,... me? Man in the mirror? YOU?

You just keep making the same argument over and over and over. Now your trying to make the argument your H2 is better than an H2R under the assumption most H2R owners "wont" flash their bikes lol. That's almost like performing a "mind F#ck" on yourself lol. I guess if that makes you feel better about the bike in your garage, Roll D@mn Tide!

The H2 unrestricted will NEVER make the same power or come close to making the same power as an UNrestricted H2R will.

I don't see what your struggling with about that. It seems like it is almost ruining your life as you post about it 24/7 non stop around the clock like your looking for validation from others to give you peace in life.

Let it go dude, its all good.

The H2 Unrestricted is a bomb, the H2R UNrestriced is an Atomic bomb!!!

It is what it is, blame Kawasaki.

For someone sick of the subject gee whiz.

I don't think my H2 "is better than an H2R", I ride A LOT so for me the H2 made more sense but if the H2R was street legal I would have bought one over the H2 in a heart beat, it's looks, the carbon fiber, the wings, the exhaust & way it sounds, the exclusiveness of it, the 250 rwhp performance stock, its insane & love everything about it. I may keep the H2 and buy a 2015 H2R if I can find one, was looking to bid on Cliffs H2R actually but bidding went to $66k, I think he should have took it, set his reserve lower. But if I could only own one it would be the Stage 2 H2, as H2QIK said in the other thread; 'For the same performance Id rather keep my street legal Stage II H2 over an H2R and save $20k', IMO that comparison is why it's an interesting topic.

My posts were intended simply to compare 1) rwhp performance of the bikes so far 2) & LSR because they're so close in both categories & feel thats interesting. I was having a discussion with posters who both agreed & with some who disagreed but that's ok, that's how we learn, no one got personal or bashed the H2R to feel better about their H2s or the other way around, no one told the other to 'go take drugs' that they were doing a "mind fu.k on themselves" or they didn't have 'peace in their lives' as you have today. Usually thats projection.

It wasn't the "same argument". Again I copied & pasted the info from the article that was posted in this thread yesterday about the H2R possibly getting specd an overly rich mixture to reduce top end power after 326 hp was already released to the public because to me it was NEW information, I hadn't read it before.

You think "MOST" H2R owners are reflashing their bikes? I don't think "MOST" H2R owners even know their bikes aren't making what Kawasaki advertised, sure doesn't seem that way. I highly doubt even 1 in 10 will be reflashed.

The topic you keep bringing up of a flashed H2R vs. flashed H2, that's not too unlike the I've been posting about, that you don't want to hear about, no? I'd actually like to see that comparison too, should be interesting to see if an H2R beats the H2s records & if it does hopefully we'll see 230 maybe 240 mph... Competition is always good but until then we can either discuss actual rwhp & LSR records or do some couch racing.

Think I've contributed to the forum a bit in the last year, for you to say otherwise dunno that your comment is fair. Sure, I've posted a # of times recently about the H2Rs vs Stage II H2, I thought it was an interesting topic (as in Brocks video where he sets out to & beats the H2Rs LSR w/ a Stage II H2) didn't realize there were posting police as to how often you can post on an H2/H2R performance topic but to say that's the only thing I post about or that I post "24/7 non stop around the clock" w/ my 2.26 average posts per day? I get thats an often used forum strategy to put people down but I don't endulge that way, sorry.

Btw: We are actually on the same team, I don't know if you own an H2R, an H2, (I can't recall your posts off hand) but I doubt anyone that owns either of these bikes can't really appreciate the other, they're almost identical. It's possible to have a respectful conversation without trying to insult (nor would you speak to me that way in person) the way you're expressing yourself by trying to put me down & getting personal, like how it sounds via teenagers commenting on YouTube isn't how we should treat one another on this forum which I assumed was made up of mature adults that shared the same passion....Have a nice night selenap, gotta jet}}}}}

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post #8 of 20 Old 05-21-2016, 07:49 PM
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For someone sick of the subject gee whiz.

I don't think my H2 "is better than an H2R", I ride A LOT so for me the H2 made more sense but if the H2R was street legal I would have bought one over the H2 in a heart beat, it's looks, the carbon fiber, the wings, the exhaust & way it sounds, the exclusiveness of it, the 250 rwhp performance stock, its insane & love everything about it. I may keep the H2 and buy a 2015 H2R if I can find one, was looking to bid on Cliffs H2R actually but bidding went to $66k, I think he should have took it, set his reserve lower. But if I could only own one it would be the Stage 2 H2, as H2QIK said in the other thread; 'For the same performance Id rather keep my street legal Stage II H2 over an H2R and save $20k', IMO that comparison is why it's an interesting topic.

My posts were intended simply to compare 1) rwhp performance of the bikes so far 2) & LSR because they're so close in both categories & feel thats interesting. I was having a discussion with posters who both agreed & with some who disagreed but that's ok, that's how we learn, no one got personal or bashed the H2R to feel better about their H2s or the other way around, no one told the other to 'go take drugs' that they were doing a "mind fu.k on themselves" or they didn't have 'peace in their lives' as you have today. Usually thats projection.

It wasn't the "same argument". Again I copied & pasted the info from the article that was posted in this thread yesterday about the H2R possibly getting specd an overly rich mixture to reduce top end power after 326 hp was already released to the public because to me it was NEW information, I hadn't read it before.

You think "MOST" H2R owners are reflashing their bikes? I don't think "MOST" H2R owners even know their bikes aren't making what Kawasaki advertised, sure doesn't seem that way. I highly doubt even 1 in 10 will be reflashed.

The topic you keep bringing up of a flashed H2R vs. flashed H2, that's not too unlike the I've been posting about, that you don't want to hear about, no? I'd actually like to see that comparison too, should be interesting to see if an H2R beats the H2s records & if it does hopefully we'll see 230 maybe 240 mph... Competition is always good but until then we can either discuss actual rwhp & LSR records or do some couch racing.

Think I've contributed to the forum a bit in the last year, for you to say otherwise dunno that your comment is fair. Sure, I've posted a # of times recently about the H2Rs vs Stage II H2, I thought it was an interesting topic (as in Brocks video where he sets out to & beats the H2Rs LSR w/ a Stage II H2) didn't realize there were posting police as to how often you can post on an H2/H2R performance topic but to say that's the only thing I post about or that I post "24/7 non stop around the clock" w/ my 2.26 average posts per day? I get thats an often used forum strategy to put people down but I don't endulge that way, sorry.

Btw: We are actually on the same team, I don't know if you own an H2R, an H2, (I can't recall your posts off hand) but I doubt anyone that owns either of these bikes can't really appreciate the other, they're almost identical. It's possible to have a respectful conversation without trying to insult (nor would you speak to me that way in person) the way you're expressing yourself by trying to put me down & getting personal, like how it sounds via teenagers commenting on YouTube isn't how we should treat one another on this forum which I assumed was made up of mature adults that shared the same passion....Have a nice night selenap, gotta jet}}}}}
lol!
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-21-2016, 11:30 PM
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I doubt anyone that owns either of these bikes can't really appreciate the other, they're almost identical. It's possible to have a respectful conversation without trying to insult (nor would you speak to me that way in person) the way you're expressing yourself by trying to put me down & getting personal, like how it sounds via teenagers commenting on YouTube isn't how we should treat one another on this forum which I assumed was made up of mature adults that shared the same passion....Have a nice night selenap, gotta jet}}}}}
My bike is H2R #10 , was dyno'd before they put it in the box and it makes 321.1 SAE. Right now. No waiting. That's why I bought it. Having ridden it almost 600 miles, that's not an error. Anything lower than KTRC 2- makes the bike just about useless. After 10K RPM the thing goes into f'ing warp drive all the way to 15K. My H2, while amazing, has absolutely NOTHING on the H2R. Again, why I bought it. Several other tests have shown 310+ - including the one from Kawi performed on a dyno in a room full of people live - but no one wants to quote any of those because it doesn't make the H2R look bad. Just because motorcycle.com couldn't get it done doesn't mean it isn't there. They did everything they could to cripple that bike including using Gadson's H2 ECU. They might as well have shoved a potato in the tailpipe. How did that one, awful example become the yardstick by which all H2R's are measured?

Saying an H2 is anything like the R is monumentally, embarrassingly wrong. The only way you can possibly make that comparison is to have never ridden both.

If you need a cheat sheet on just how 'nearly identical' the H2 and H2R are - here you go;

The H2R is simply what any of us would do to the H2 if we had the unlimited resources of Kawasaki Heavy Industries at our disposal. There are four major differences…and a million little ones. Comparing the two bikes it becomes abundantly clear that other than general shape, a few panels and the transmission, they're barely even related;

- The entire upper fairing is completely different down to the shape, the windscreen, the bolts that hold it in, the inner covers and the materials its made out of. The wings are obviously different - but they're not just some flimsy carbon impregnated plastic - they're legit, F1 level quality structural elements. If an H2R ever fell over (dear God please don't ever let me find out), the upper and lower wings will easily hold it up. They're not $1500 a piece just to keep you buying an extra set and selling them.

-The wiring harness is different in interesting ways (we'll cover that later).

-The rake and trail are different. H2 - 24.5/103mm vs H2R 25.1/108

-The dimensions are even different; The H2 is (LxWxH) 2,085 x 770 x 1,125 mm VS the H2R 2,070 x 770 x 1,160 mm

-The H2R's seat height is 5mm lower

-The H2R is 48.5 pounds lighter

-Has 23.2 more ft lbs of torque (aka 31.5nm)

-The left control is cosmetically/functionally different.

-The function of the meter unit is very different; you can select ABS off, front only or front/rear, it has a lap timer, minute/hour meter to keep track of time spent over 8,000RPM, a max speed memory function and completely different KTRC and mode programming.

-The ECU is obviously different including a 14,500rpm rev limit as opposed to 10,500rpm on the H2. That's because;

-The air filter surface area of the H2R is roughly 2.5x larger (the H2R needs four times the air required on the H2), the intake (one of the major differences) is entirely made of carbon fiber, weighs nothing, uses both inlets (larger than the H2 on both sides) and the entire system/volume/area is significantly larger than the H2 (13,000 mm2 for the H2R). The runner is much larger, has a smoother, uninterrupted curve, is not impeded at the supercharger in any way and the system is completely sealed fore and aft. The resonator that the BOV terminates in is also carbon fiber (it's kinda cool that they constructed parts out of carbon where they could that aren't even visible).

-The H2R runner has a constriction in the middle to increase the Venturi effect of the air coming in (it's shape helps speed up the air and increase its pressure before it even reaches the supercharger). It also has a $3200 carbon resonator attached to deal with the pushback of the intake valves and keep the incoming air smooth. These guys weren't messing around!

-The R has no cooling fans partly due to intended use (read; no stop and go traffic) - but partly because of how the cams function (another major difference). The cams have more duration and lift obviously to utilize the extra air and fuel being rammed in - but they also do something pretty clever; the exhaust lobes have more duration and actually use the supercharged intake air to clear out spent gasses on the exhaust stroke and cool the cylinders at high RPM. (That's also why the exhaust is different and why it's dangerous to go too far with lifting your H2's rev limiter).

-The entire exhaust system stem to stern is different and made of only one material (titanium) vs titanium and stainless mix of the H2.

-The crankcase, cam and compression are different, not the gasket (major, major difference - however the cylinder head, gasket, pistons and crank are the same on both bikes.) The H2 is 8.5:1 vs the H2R at 8.25:1

-The H2R has two additional clutch plates

-The fuel pump is different ($1500 on the R)

-The tire sizes are different (the R uses a 190 rear, the H2 comes with a 200)

-The rear chain/drive/sprocket and hub on the R are different; 42 teeth (plus all the attached bits) vs 44 for the H2.

They didn't just slap some carbon on it, pull the cat off and call it a day. They went bonkers tweaking and optimizing every single element. That's why the H2R is special just beyond the obvious HP gains.
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-22-2016, 12:12 AM
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H2 rev limit is well beyond 10,500 rpm.

The wheelbase and overall length dimensions are different because (A) the different number of teeth for the rear sprocket leads to a different nominal position for the rear axle because the length of the chain can only be changed in discrete increments, and (B) the rear tire has a different rolling diameter. The design of the chain adjuster means the nominal height of the rear axle changes relative to the swingarm. The different rolling diameter of the rear tire plus the different default position of the chain adjuster will also change height that the rear of the bike sits at, which automatically changes the seat height, and the rake, and the trail. It would also be completely unsurprising if the base suspension settings are different in order to make the whole package work together. These changes aren't necessarily because of fundamental changes in hard parts (frame, swingarm, triple clamps, forks, etc).

The bikes are obviously different in many ways but they are variations on the same theme ...

It is physically impossible for the longer overlap in the cam timing on the H2R to result in four times as much total air (and fuel) going through the engine. There isn't enough time/area for it to happen. "More", yes, and significantly so if you are comparing to the H2 in stock (restricted) form. Less so if you compare to a de-restricted H2. But not four times as much. Pumping vast amounts of raw air and fuel through an engine simply in order to cool it off is nothing to brag about - it is a colossal waste, it will result in a BSFC that any decent powertrain engineer should be ashamed of in this day and age ... Four times as much fuel used in order to make 50% more power is not a good trade-off. I will just about guarantee that there is a mis-translation from Japanese to English involved here, or some other similar improper explanation or misunderstanding.
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